Samsung HW-Q800C firmware "1003.6" DTS codec regression bug

[Mirko_Brand]

Hello, a few days ago my Q800C soundbar has auto-updated to the latest firmware "1003.6".

This has introduced a bug where "DTS HD MA" audio codec can no longer be played. The soundbar displays "Stereo PCM" even though the content has "DTS HD MA 7.1".

This used to work on previous firmware "1002.0". No other changes to physical connections, nor software was made.

Is there any way to manually downgrade firmware?

[Kopicha]

There is a big issue with this point you made.

"If you plug a USB drive with DTS-HD MA test files into the TV directly, the built in Samsung media player reports "Unsupported audio format"."

The above statement I assume the TV you are talking about is a Samsung TV.  And if that is really the case, Samsung TV never support DTS in the first place. You should test an an external player that is connected directly to the soundbar

[Mirko_Brand]

Hi, yes, originally I was using an external player with audio passthrough. Then with the update 1003.6, this stopped working, so I was testing all possible scenarios to see if I can get it to work at all.

I've also posted my issue in more detail here: https://www.rtings.com/discussions/nkgx6bKF97u_R2lm/review-updates-samsung-hw-q800c?sort=newest#comm...
There are a few back and forth comments with the editor. Their setup seems to work without any issues. Mine still does not, and I most certainly don't intend to "invest" further into equipment that works when it wants to work :S

Basically I've undone any testing changes and went back to my original setup of external player -> TV -> SB with audio passthrough on all aspects, for SB direct play of audio codecs. DTS still does not work.

Samsung support is ghosting the thread, and there is literally no support email on their websites. Just a useless chatbot...

[Kopicha]

if you are trying DTS i am very sure you need to connect directly to the soundbar. I mean the source eg. your media player / bluray player etc. Given that Samsung TV do not support DTS, even if you have it set to passthru on Samsung TV, it will not work. At least this part I can confirm. Unfortunately I cant really test for you DTS MA as I dont really have a source for that, also I am still on 1002 as far as for the fw on the soundbar.

I only can suggest connect your player directly to your soundbar and play around with the audio output on the player and see what you get. Simply say just forget about connecting to your TV HDMI if you want to get any form of DTS.

[Mirko_Brand]

Plugging in directly into the SB is not an option, since it would mean certain other features and characteristics would not function (higher refresh rate, VRR, ...).

As described in the first post, the IDENTICAL setup (player -> TV -> SB, using EARC and digital audio passthrough) used to work flawlessly on older firmware (v1002), meaning that a breaking change was introduced on the SoundBar's software side of things on v1003.

All other "solutions" are in fact workarounds at additional financial and convenience expenses for the BUYER.

My current situation is borderline illegal, since there is no rolling back software versions, and there is no way for me to contact the official Samsung support; while at the same time the product DOES NOT WORK as intended and marketed to consumers. Needles to say the hardware itself is considered mid-to-higher-end and such issues should not be present AT ALL regardless of external players or other hardware combinations, as long as the entire chain supports audio passthroughs.

[Munkeebutt67]

I currently have a Blu-ray player direct into my TV Samsung series 8, and a 4k firestick in the soundbars input. As the firestick has only Dolby digital output, do you think the Blu-ray player would be better in the soundbar?, as the DTS pass through is screened as multi pcm from the tv.

[Kopicha]

Mate... I am not trying to argue with you anything but rather pointing you to certain facts. I understand your frustration. If something truly broke, I would be mad too. But the problem is  there are a lot of things you have not been clear. Like eg. What TV are you using? What player are you using? You have not been clear about anything. I can only based on how you describe certain things and make the assumption that firstly your TV is from Samsung. And you are using an external player though I do not know exactly what player is that, it's probably some media player TV box of sort or a bluray player? Assuming if my assumption are all correct, then I would say a few things. I am not sure what you mean it "used to work". Because I had specifically made clear of one thing in my previous post. Samsung TV do not support DTS. And has never been. So does not matter you select pass thru on TV or what not. It just won't work. And for the "external player" you talking about. Don't tell me things like VRR and etc. That is irrelevant. Unless you are using a gaming console like Xbox or PS5. If that is the case you need to be very clear you are using a game console and don't call it an external player. If you are not using any one of those consoles mentioned, VRR is irrelevant. That is kind of nonsensical as you do not seems to know what you are talking If that is the case. Which is why I had suggested you to plug direct to the soundbar for DTS as that is the only way it will work and not just now but has always been this way all along. So nothing is broken. I am not sure why you say it "used to work" because that is kind of not possible as that has been how those hardware has been all along. Again this is assuming what I think you had are correct TV = Samsung. Other brands I am not sure. And even if you were to talk about console. I had PS5 and Xbox Series X both connected to the TV which is  Samsung, my soundbar is Q990C and DTS has never never worked. And I am on 1002 which is the previous firmware you had before you got upgraded to 1003. And I never make any fuss because it is working as intended. Nothing is broken. That is as much as I can tell you.

[Mirko_Brand]

Ok, lets try again.

The TV is a 2023 Samsung S90C, the external player is a Raspberry Pi 4, and the soundbar is 2023 Q800C. The fact that I am using an RPI as an external player will most likely be controversial to some people here, but that is completely besides the point and irrelevant for the discussion topic. I've outlined how these are connected in my previous posts; properly using eARC to get the maximum native support for all feature marketed by both Samsung devices.

And before anyone starts attacking, yes, I understand that RPi4 will not support VRR ever, but 5 most likely will, and that is the reason why I am completely against routing HDMI through the SB, just to get DTS working. Saying that VRR and other features don't matter for my use case is besides the point and incorrect. Gaming features such as VRR and 60+ refresh rate are NOT supported by the Soundbar, so routing HDMI through the SB just to get DTS working is simply WRONG. There is a major tradeoff especially if you want to utilize all features of the TV AND SB that you payed for...

"Don't tell me things like VRR and etc. That is irrelevant. Unless you are using a gaming console like Xbox or PS5." Only half true. At the moment since I am using the Pi4, yes, it won't matter. But that does not mean that I should neglect that this feature exists and that it should work if passthrough was working as expected.

"Samsung TV do not support DTS", yes I am fully aware of this. I've been in the Samsung ecosystem for a long time, and I know how the TVs themselves do not support the format/codec... Thats why I am saying that there is obviously some flaw with how audio passthrough is handled by the TV and SB.

"So does not matter you select pass thru on TV or what not." This is completely wrong. The main point of using passthrough is to PASS THROUGH the audio signal unprocessed into the downstream device that will do the actual processing (in my case this is the soundbar itself)... This means that the TV simply does not care if I am watching Dolby, DTS, stereo or whatever content; since its being forwarded directly into the SB which IS supposed to understand and process those signals and play them. Additionally since I am using eARC, once the codec is decoded on the SB, it can be returned to the TV to play bitstream for the Q-Symphony feature, EVEN for DTS. Hopefully I've cleared things up here.

"Which is why I had suggested you to plug direct to the soundbar for DTS as that is the only way it will work and not just now but has always been this way all along. So nothing is broken." As explained above, this would be valid IF there was no passthrough support on the TV at all. But officially there IS, its just that its NOT working correctly. And thats also why you've given up on using it at as its intended design (external player into TV -> TV passthrough <- EARC-> SB = Win without any drawbacks...).

With all that said you've made several arguments in favor of Samsung; that they can print whatever they want on their hardware and market its support for features that will work only for 1% of compatible hardware they choose to support? Does that really seam right to you?

In any case the discussion went completely off of the main point. Which is:
Not allowing people to downgrade SW versions for their devices can lead us to where we are now. Where I am sure the previous revision 1002.0 worked as intended between all my devices and played DTS content from the RPi into the soundbar via the TV passthrough. If I had the ability to downgrade I could easily reproduce this and present my case to anyone with a simple 30sec video and the case would be closed... But we don't, so... 😕

[Kopicha]

Okay before I go any further, I want to first clear up a couple of things. As I have said even in my previous post, I am not trying to shield Samsung. There is no reason for me to do so as I am a consumer myself too. I do not work for them neither do they provide me with any of those products I own for free. I have my frustration with them too. That being said, there is a line between complaining or being frustrated over an actual issue / bug that broke the product and frustrated / complaining to Samsung and hoping for them to listen and add something that is is not present in their product. However I do feel you kind of blurred that line already. Besides... I am only trying to help. And as far as what I have posted to you previous I still stand by them for being as accurate as they can be. In short to say I am just stating facts and constructive comments rather than trying to give you any workarounds of sort. Even something like asking you to plug direct to the SB, that is not a workaround but rather it is how it is and always has been. Now with this clear up, Going back on topic.

Quote "The TV is a 2023 Samsung S90C, the external player is a Raspberry Pi 4, and the soundbar is 2023 Q800C. The fact that I am using an RPI as an external player will most likely be controversial to some people here" 

Response : I am not sure about others but I do not judge. That is your freedom, you use what you like / prefer. Good that you share the products that you are actually using so we can be clearer. And a follow up from my previous I am using S95B with Q990C with PS5 and Xbox Series X connected directly to TV and a Nintendo Switch connected to the SB.

Quote"Don't tell me things like VRR and etc. That is irrelevant. Unless you are using a gaming console like Xbox or PS5." Only half true. At the moment since I am using the Pi4, yes, it won't matter. But that does not mean that I should neglect that this feature exists and that it should work if passthrough was working as expected."

Response : This my friend where you kind of blurred the line as I mentioned earlier in the post. First of all no one is asking you to neglect a feature that exists. Example as I mentioned earlier, I have a Nintendo Switch connected to the SB. Why did I do that instead of hooking it up to the TV directly? Reason is simple, Switch do not support VRR / 120hz and etc. It cap out at 1080p60 and support LPCM5.1> Since advance features are not require it can just go to the SB as the Q990C do not support ALLM/VRR/120hz passthru. I did not neglect the features I have / paid for. Rather using it as intended, in fact i made full use that is why i have them connected that way. Also Pi5 supports VRR or what not. my original comment still stands. You can argue or day but the fact is unless you are using some powerful PC with something with RTX4090 or something equivalent or one of those current gen consoles like PS5 / Xbox Series, VRR / 120hz support is pointless. There is a difference between having it and actually serving a purpose vs. having it but serving no purpose like for the sake of just having it. So being stubborn and insist on wanting something that is not actually relevant really goes no where. I mean you have your rights those are your stuffs. No one can say you are wrong, but is it practical? That is another thing.

Quote "So does not matter you select pass thru on TV or what not." This is completely wrong. The main point of using passthrough is to PASS THROUGH the audio signal unprocessed into the downstream device that will do the actual processing (in my case this is the soundbar itself)... This means that the TV simply does not care if I am watching Dolby, DTS, stereo or whatever content; since its being forwarded directly into the SB which IS supposed to understand and process those signals and play them. Additionally since I am using eARC, once the codec is decoded on the SB, it can be returned to the TV to play bitstream for the Q-Symphony feature, EVEN for DTS. Hopefully I've cleared things up here."

Response : I do not think I am wrong. But it is more like you understand it wrongly while trying to use this to make your point. Passthru means sending bitstream signal, the signal is not process by the handler but being hand off to another device to do the processing instead. That being said it does not means when it say Passthru, you can passthru everything thing. It is like saying using some old bluray player that does not even support the latest codecs but just because it can passthru which most does, it can handle those latest codecs like Dolby Atmos / DTS-X. I never check on S90C. But I am 100% certain S95C DO NOT PASSTHRU DTS. That said if the higher end model does not, the S90C would be doubtful that it can. And S95B does not either which I can confirm that too. Which leads to the point I already said previously, Samsung TVs do not support DTS passthru. So you did not pay for something that is not working. Or maybe you did? Show me the advertisement from Samsung that say so. At least for me I know before I buy and what I am getting into. I know S95B never advertise that it support DTS. Which is why I did not make a fuss out of it. If I want that  I would have gone for another TV that does. It is the same thing where Samsung TV do not support Dolby Vision but only HDR10+. I would not then come and complain its broken because my TV do not play content in DV. But given the premium of the product, I would wish Samsung had added that support and should add. However if they choose not to forever, you have your choice, just go for other brand that does if that is important to you. You are not being gunpoint to buy what you buy isnt it? Same to be said for the DTS case. I too would wish and feel they should support it. But it does not and it is what it is. And that is not broken but rather feature lacking. 2 different things mate.

Quote ""So does not matter you select pass thru on TV or what not." This is completely wrong. The main point of using passthrough is to PASS THROUGH the audio signal unprocessed into the downstream device that will do the actual processing (in my case this is the soundbar itself)... This means that the TV simply does not care if I am watching Dolby, DTS, stereo or whatever content; since its being forwarded directly into the SB which IS supposed to understand and process those signals and play them. Additionally since I am using eARC, once the codec is decoded on the SB, it can be returned to the TV to play bitstream for the Q-Symphony feature, EVEN for DTS. Hopefully I've cleared things up here."

Response : I already responded to this in my response above. I do not think I am wrong but rather you just made assumption and play with words. Just because it is call passthru. Even as a passthru there is still handshake between the devices. It did not process the signal but the recipient needs to know what signal is that. If the signal is not supported by the recipient, it will not be handled period which in this case it will not work.

Quote "As explained above, this would be valid IF there was no passthrough support on the TV at all. But officially there IS, its just that its NOT working correctly. And thats also why you've given up on using it at as its intended design (external player into TV -> TV passthrough <- EARC-> SB = Win without any drawbacks...)."

Response : Again just as above, wrong understanding.

Quote "With all that said you've made several arguments in favor of Samsung; that they can print whatever they want on their hardware and market its support for features that will work only for 1% of compatible hardware they choose to support? Does that really seam right to you?"

Response : Let me put it this away. A certain technology can support certain features, however it is up to each OEM how they implement them. It is not up to you or me to say is that right. So I am not going to tell you if they seems right to me or not. An example, as part of Qualcomm Sound feature set, one of the feature is multipoint connection. But yet there are OEMs out there that made their BT TWS / Headphones advertising it supports Qualcomm Sound but yet it does not support multipoint BT connectivity. And they did not lie, apart from that it does support most of the rest of features. So is that right or wrong? That is not up to you or me to say. It is their decision how they design and implement the tech on their product. The only thing you and I can call for is if the product suits our needs. If we find their implementation stupid, dont buy it. You have options mates.

Quote "Not allowing people to downgrade SW versions for their devices can lead us to where we are now. Where I am sure the previous revision 1002.0 worked as intended between all my devices and played DTS content from the RPi into the soundbar via the TV passthrough."

Response : Yes I agree with you. There should be an option to downgrade / revert the change. However these days such option are getting less and less. I dont think this is only on Samsung, but literally every current products out there. It sucks and I totally agree. I stand by you on this as we buy and own the product, we should have the rights how we want to use them within reason. But again I am really puzzled that you keep saying it works for you previously. As I did tell you in my previous post, based on what I have, I can confirm with you the DTS does not work and has never worked with 1002. And I am still on 1002 as of this post. Which again I am already repeating myself here, I know it does not work prior to that which is why i have never make any fuss / complain. In order to confirm if the DTS is really broken or not, did you actually try connecting directly to the SB? Mate... if you are troubleshooting something, you need to try all possibility to isolate where the problem is. Besides if you truly believe the "passthru" as how you think they work, that they simply passthru anything? In that case if you connect your Pi4 now to the SB, the DTS will not be working too. In that case we can truly say 1003 has broken DTS. Whether you send the signal via passthru from TV or directly from the source device it is the same signal. So there is no such thing as the DTS signal sent from different device where one work and the other dont. The change made was only on your SB not your TV. Peace.....

[Kopicha]

This post is directed to Samsung if they actually read it. In all honestly I do not understand why the TVs do not support DTS. It kind of makes no sense considering the Soundbar you designed that is meant to pair with the TV you made supports it. Even if the TV is not able to encode them directly, should at least allow it to passthru the bitstream signal for the device that can handle them. Which in this case will solve all the problems.

[Munkeebutt67]

just from recent experience, I find that putting the Blu-ray player directly into the TV and selecting eArc, multi pcm, still outputting DTS, is shown on the soundbar display. If directly into the soundbar, the display reads DTS X, and outputs the correct signal. I would rather connect my Blu-ray to the TV, as control is limited thru the soundbar hdmi, and have the fire 4k thru this, as it's default reads Dolby digital no matter what is streamed. I think any usb connection will cause loss whichever way you decide to connect it, which is why I avoid this can of worms. Switch is direct to TV as well, as trying to tell family how to work thru soundbar input would be another headache. Be happy with tech moving forward. I had to deal with Dobly prologic, nicam, scarts, and video tape. With 18" deep TV's.