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S20 and Chord Mojo

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Apprentice

Hi,

 

I have upgraded from an s9plus to s20 plus but I was surprised to realize that when plugged to my Chord Mojo dac it outputs something that can not be called music. Anyone else having the same problem?

 

One mention, my device has the random reboot bug... Still waiting for the fix.

 

Pls someone test s20 plus with chord Mojo and let me know if it works for you. Thank you!

34 REPLIES 34
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Hi Naz

Apologies for the sporadic replies!

So, let's start with the mojo/poly option. The video you linked to is a little outdated as there is now firmware 2.0 which dramatically improves the user experience, it's still not perfect and is a little clunky, but a vast improvement.

In the video, the presenter hints at DLNA (I am not sure about airplay use being an android owner, but maybe the iPhone over Airplay is a better option, I'm not sure. Perhaps there is an apple owner who can comment?), what he fails to mention is that he uses Bubble UPnP android app (there is a brief cation referencing it at the top of the screen), which works really well as a renderer with the poly. However, and this is the important bit... you will need wifi to connect the phone to the poly in bubble UPnP and the Samsung and the poly need to be on the same wi-fi. The Samsung galaxy mobile hotspot does not work in this setup as the Samsung generates its own hotspot, it does not connect to it.

There are two solutions to this problem: Firstly you can (as you correctly say) set the poly up as a hotspot. This will enable you to use the poly as a renderer in UPnP without an internet connection. This means that, again as you say, you cannot stream from tidal, qobuz, Amazon, Spotify etc, but you can stream files which you have pre-downloaded.

The second option is to use a 4g wifi dongle, connect both poly and galaxy to the same wifi network and use bubble   UPnP to stream from all of the above sources.

I use this method on trains, etc and it works well.

However, and here is the rub, not only do you have to carry an extra box (I have a TP-link M7650 mobile wi-fi device), but you do actually lose some audio quality as you are wirelessly streaming to the poly and then sending the signal to the mojo.

The best quality will always be the most direct route, so for ultimate fidelity, I use the S20 to the mojo via the USB pro app using a short USB C to micro USB cable. This works really well. You can stream and play HD music on the S20 hard drive or SD card.

 

At the moment I would avoid Bluetooth completely. The poly does not support a decent codec and neither does the s20. Even if the S20 upgrades to APTX adaptive the poly will also need to get an upgrade.

 

Regarding the Fiio, it appears to be Bluetooth only (please correct me if I am wrong), which presents the same poor codec support from the Samsung.

If Samsung update their codec to APTX HD or adaptive then this would definitely be worth considering, however, you may still have some buyers remorse for not buying the chord setup as the mojo/poly is not a one-trick pony. It is a brilliant Roon endpoint for a home audio system and works fantastically when connected to domestic wifi.

The real USP of the mojo is, of course, the sound quality.

I did a really interesting demonstration in the Spiritland headphone bar in London. 

Samsung s9 with mojo and £85 Beyer earbuds, vs Samsung s9 with £1000 headphone amp and £1500 headphones. The mojo/Beyerdynamic combo destroyed them, just proving that the DAC is cheap and nasty in the Samsung and if you put rubbish in you get rubbish out.

In fact, the high-end setup was so revealing it really served to show how poor the S9 DAC is.

My advice would be to start with the mojo. Download lots of offline content from Amazon HD if that is your preferred source (or swap to Tidal or Qobuz which works natively with USB Audio Pro), use USB audio Pro and a decent interconnect.

If you feel like you are going to use the wireless capability of the poly at home then it is a nice add-on, if a little pricey for what is essentially a wireless dongle for the mojo.

 

I hope this helps a bit, keep the question coming!

 

kind regards

 

Mike

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Hi Akinobu

It's appalling that Samsung can allow such an expensive product to be released with such an awful codec which is simply not fit for purpose.

USB audio pro (play store about £7) completely solves the problem thankfully, if you use the mojo wired directly to the USB output.

To use the Poly/mojo wirelessly I use Bubble Unpnp and this will work as long as both devices (phone and poly) are on the same wifi network. The poly hotspot mode will not allow you to stream from the internet (as you are not connected to the internet).

I must say that my Bluetooth does work when connected to the poly/mojo/wired headphones, but I have to pair manually by opening my Bluetooth connection setting and selecting poly.

If this does not work (a reason why could be because you imported settings over from a previous Samsung device, a common Bluetooth issue?) then unpair, restart the phone and repair the devices. 

However, there really is little point in having the poly if you are going to use Bluetooth with the Samsung. The codecs available for both devices are absolute garbage and the sound quality is appalling.

You would be much better with a USB C to micro USB lead straight from the S20 to the mojo via USB audio pro. In fact, this also sounds better than Bubble UPnP wirelessly connected to the Poly as it is a more direct signal path. 

I hope this is helpful

Kind regards

Mike

 

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@BlackJohnny wrote:

After the xxxATCT firmware update, the restart seems to be solved but the audio is still junk.

 

Can a Samsung moderator please comment on this issue. Digital output is a basic feature for any computing machine and Samsung has failed to deliver it with this expensive product.

 

I have also an S9 with android 10 that și working flawlessly therefore Google is not to be blamed for this.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you ASAP.

 

Regards


Hi @BlackJohnny ,

 

Our software team would be interested in collecting more info on this. Are you guys who are experiencing this able to send some log files their way for them to analyse?

 

As soon as you notice the issue: Samsung Members > Get Help > Send Feedback > Error Reports > [select error type] > attach a description and tick ‘send system log data’ > Send.

(Or: Long-press the Samsung Members icon on the Apps screen, and select Error reports from the dropdown menu, etc.)

 

Despite the Support/response function on the Members app being limited by the current COVID-19 situation, the software team should still be able to collect the log files sent. 👍


 Say "Hello!" to the Community in The Introduce Yourself Thread.


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Mike,

You are a legend! I feel I am learning so much from you, saving me hours trawling through the internet.

As for the BTR5 this device purports to be a USB DAC as well, and supports a wealth of Bluetooth Codecs. However, it seems to me that the S20 does not work via USB with the MOJO, so what chance does this device have? Probably ZERO. I have today cancelled my Order for a S20 Ultra as I ma not prepared to spend considerable money on something that is by all accounts RUBBISH.

That said, for the price £105.00 (approx.) would this not be a great option moving forwards, as its USB DAC supports up-to 384kHz/DSD256 native, as opposed to the say the DragonFly Cobalt, which whilst having a better DAC and separate Amp, only supports 24-bit/96kHz audio? Having said that, it certainly does not say (BTR5) whether the USB DAC can only be used with a Computer/Laptop and/or a Mobile Smart Phone; leaving me again confused; I've tried looking this up but to no avail??

As for the Mojo, it also seems to me that the Mojo needs updating as well, given its Bluetooth capabilities are awful at best, and certain improvements on the device are needed, as I foresee problems with other high-end devices, especially those that now support USB C; the difficulty it appears is turning the device in to "host mode" to bypass the internal DAC; maybe Mojo need to UPDATE/UPGRADE their device to keep up with 2020 devices?!

Truth be known, I am happy to spend under £1,000.00 on a DAC and up to £750.00 on a set of 300ohm or even 600ohm audiophile headphones; but I am running around like a headless chicken trying to work out what is my best option. Your advice is this arena would be most welcomed.

I do not (in fact detest) like buying rubbish, and always seek to make a (if necessary expensive purchase) once and for all; so I wonder if I should get headphones that support the 2.5mm Balanced Output, or would 3.5mm SE's be just as good with a adaptor, so they can be used in a 2.5mm balanced output??? Again your expertise in this area will help solve this mystery?

However, a part of me still wants to purchase the Mojo, so here goes/comes a few more questions for you and of course any others members here, that may be able to assist; all help/advice is warmly welcomed.

1) Am I right in assuming from what you are saying, that if (and I have a 4G++ wifi device from EE) I use a 4G dongle then I can use the Mojo/Poly combination, but because it is not as strong/reliable as a home router (wifi connection) that I will experience audio quality degradation; is that what you are saying? - Apologies for being slow on the uptake; I'm learning!

2) That can I use/stream from Amazon HD (I appreciate Tidal etc through UAPP, but I've paid for one year Amazon HD for the entire family and want to make use of it to the best of its abilities) through the above set-up and use their own app, or do I still have to use Bubble UPnP? I'm a bit confused!

3) Would I need Bubble to play files stored on my device/SD card on phone and/or Mojo/Poly, if I used the set-up as in question, 1) above? Or is the use of Bubble UPnP purely for Dlna as opposed to WIFI.

4) Android supports 'download booster' and so if I connected my source device/mobile phone to the Mojo/Poly to its 'own hotspot mode', would I not be able to then still stream from online sources like Amazon HD (using their app) using my 4G from the source phone and still be able to use the Poly's wireless feature?

5) Why do CHORD themselves say, "Hotspot mode allows the device to act as a router, this should only be used for portable devices that cannot access 'personal hotspot mode' where the network provider has place restriction. YOUR SMARTPHONE MAY NO LONGER ne able to access the internet when connected to POLY" ?

6) Surely, this implies that there are or could be instances when you CAN access the internet and further that 'personal hotspot mode' must serve a purpose being what exactly???

I hope to finalise what I will be purchasing today, as during this lock-down I have now spent 3 days religiously reading, for 12 hours plus and have read almost 5000 pages across 130 open-tabs on my computer, 100+ on my phone and 100+ on the tablet.

I use a iPhone X and a Samsung S10+; what is the best DAC for me and the best audiophile headset (wired) that I can use, in the budget I have stated; someone please put me out of my misery.

All advice/help/guidance is truly appreciated.

Kindly, Naz

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"Despite the Support/response function on the Members app being limited by the current COVID-19 situation, the software team should still be able to collect the log files sent. 👍"

With the utmost respect, Covid 19 is a real nightmare, and my heart goes out to all that are victims of this, and my gratitude to all those that are on the frontline. That said, Samsung have had no issue pushing the S20 for sale?

It seems odd to me, that in light of Covid-19 that Samsung did not hold back on these phones, to avoid absolute disappointment by the consumer, and deal with basic issues like the BASIC digital output feature, get it right and be able to offer cogent support efficaciously. But this is a long standing problem with Samsung, and I find it remarkable that Covid-19 is getting the blame!!!

Come on Samsung!! This should have been tried and tested before the launch of a £1000.00 phone in the first place!
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Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply and tips.

For a phone costing as much as the S20 series, Samsung should be giving us USB Audiopro for free until they fix the issue!

 

I have been using M.A.L.P. MPD to play music off the SD card inserted into the Poly and it works well. Sounds great too! But even getting to this stage took a lot of effort and time. This is really a black mark for Chord and it's poor software implementation, nothing to do with Samsung.  I've had success with BubbleUPnp as well.

 

On my bluetooth issue, I did migrate from a Note 8(which worked flawlessly with the Chord Poly+Mojo) in both bluetooth and wired mode. However, I did a new bluetooth connection with my S20Ultra and it was still the same. I'm going to spend this lockdown getting the :serious-face-with-symbols-covering-mouth: thing to work. Thanx again for your tips and guidance. Much appreciated.

 

I really hope Samsung gets this fixed real soon. The Camera focus issue was a huge surprise and disappointment. Out of box with focussing issues is crazy!

 

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@AntS wrote:

@BlackJohnny wrote:

After the xxxATCT firmware update, the restart seems to be solved but the audio is still junk.

 

Can a Samsung moderator please comment on this issue. Digital output is a basic feature for any computing machine and Samsung has failed to deliver it with this expensive product.

 

I have also an S9 with android 10 that și working flawlessly therefore Google is not to be blamed for this.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you ASAP.

 

Regards


Hi @BlackJohnny ,

 

Our software team would be interested in collecting more info on this. Are you guys who are experiencing this able to send some log files their way for them to analyse?

 

As soon as you notice the issue: Samsung Members > Get Help > Send Feedback > Error Reports > [select error type] > attach a description and tick ‘send system log data’ > Send.

(Or: Long-press the Samsung Members icon on the Apps screen, and select Error reports from the dropdown menu, etc.)

 

Despite the Support/response function on the Members app being limited by the current COVID-19 situation, the software team should still be able to collect the log files sent. 👍


@AntS thank you for your reply. I have just sent the logs. As this does not seem to be a random issue I am not sure about the value of these logs for de developers. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to hearing from you and the devs. Regards!

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Hi Naz, I have copied your post to make answering your questions a little easier. Mike.


As for the BTR5 this device purports to be a USB DAC as well, and supports a wealth of Bluetooth Codecs. However, it seems to me that the S20 does not work via USB with the MOJO, so what chance does this device have? Probably ZERO. I have today cancelled my Order for a S20 Ultra as I ma not prepared to spend considerable money on something that is by all accounts RUBBISH.

 

I don't really know the answer to this as I have not listened to the BTR5, if there is a noise issue from the S20 then it would only be rectified by third party software (in my case USB Audio Pro).

Where are you based? If you are in the US then you get a decent (snapdragon) processor. I am in the UK and get the Exynox processor which is slow, hot and battery inefficient. 

I can cope with the audio workarounds as people are more obsessed with camera quality than audio quality (I wish it was the other way around), but to have a genuinely terrible processor in a £1500 phone is unforgivable. That would be my main gripe.

That said, for the price £105.00 (approx.) would this not be a great option moving forwards, as its USB DAC supports up-to 384kHz/DSD256 native, as opposed to the say the DragonFly Cobalt, which whilst having a better DAC and separate Amp, only supports 24-bit/96kHz audio? Having said that, it certainly does not say (BTR5) whether the USB DAC can only be used with a Computer/Laptop and/or a Mobile Smart Phone; leaving me again confused; I've tried looking this up but to no avail??

 

If it has usb input then it would definitely work with a laptop/pc/tablet and phone.

However, it is no guarantee of sound quality.



As for the Mojo, it also seems to me that the Mojo needs updating as well, given its Bluetooth capabilities are awful at best, and certain improvements on the device are needed, as I foresee problems with other high-end devices, especially those that now support USB C; the difficulty it appears is turning the device in to "host mode" to bypass the internal DAC; maybe Mojo need to UPDATE/UPGRADE their device to keep up with 2020 devices?!

 

I think you are getting your mojo mixed up with the poly. The mojo is a dac only with optical, coaxial and usb wired inputs. It does not have bluetooth. To get bluetooth and DLNA / Airplay / Roon streaming you need a poly.

Have a look at David Price's article in Stereonet here. https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/chord-electronics-poly-2-update-arrives

Truth be known, I am happy to spend under £1,000.00 on a DAC and up to £750.00 on a set of 300ohm or even 600ohm audiophile headphones; but I am running around like a headless chicken trying to work out what is my best option. Your advice is this arena would be most welcomed.

 

Very very easy, spend as much on the DAC as your budget allows and your headphones will shine. If you don't get the signal to the headphones in the first place they cannot play it!

With this budget buy a Hugo 2 and 2GO. It destroys the mojo/poly sonically, but it is not what you would call portable.

If you used a mojo with a £1000 pair of headphones it would not sound as good as a Hugo 2 with a £100 pair of headphones I promise you.

I do not (in fact detest) like buying rubbish, and always seek to make a (if necessary expensive purchase) once and for all; so I wonder if I should get headphones that support the 2.5mm Balanced Output, or would 3.5mm SE's be just as good with a adaptor, so they can be used in a 2.5mm balanced output??? Again your expertise in this area will help solve this mystery?

The mojo does not have a balanced output, so it would not take advantage here

However, a part of me still wants to purchase the Mojo, so here goes/comes a few more questions for you and of course any others members here, that may be able to assist; all help/advice is warmly welcomed.

1) Am I right in assuming from what you are saying, that if (and I have a 4G++ wifi device from EE) I use a 4G dongle then I can use the Mojo/Poly combination, but because it is not as strong/reliable as a home router (wifi connection) that I will experience audio quality degradation; is that what you are saying? - Apologies for being slow on the uptake; I'm learning!

No, the audio quality will be the same, but the streaming may not be as stable as your home router (which I assume is faster that your mobile network).

I have just tried connecting the poly via the S20 hotspot and it works fine!! This is great news as I don't need to carry my dongle, I can use the phones 4g connection to stream Tidal and Qobuz. Brilliant.

Now I think about it, the reason why it didn't connect before was because I was abroad and mobile hotspot is not allowed whilst roaming! My bad, sorry.



2) That can I use/stream from Amazon HD (I appreciate Tidal etc through UAPP, but I've paid for one year Amazon HD for the entire family and want to make use of it to the best of its abilities) through the above set-up and use their own app, or do I still have to use Bubble UPnP? I'm a bit confused!

The only way you could stream Amazon HD to the poly is via bluetooth, which sounds *****. Bubble does not support Amazon HD. 


3) Would I need Bubble to play files stored on my device/SD card on phone and/or Mojo/Poly, if I used the set-up as in question, 1) above? Or is the use of Bubble UPnP purely for Dlna as opposed to WIFI.

There is an SD slot in the poly you could use which works quite well.

You will always need a Dlna app to get any sound from the phone to the poly (unless you use bluetooth) as you will need the poly as a UPnP renderer. I use bubble but have also played around with MALP.

4) Android supports 'download booster' and so if I connected my source device/mobile phone to the Mojo/Poly to its 'own hotspot mode', would I not be able to then still stream from online sources like Amazon HD (using their app) using my 4G from the source phone and still be able to use the Poly's wireless feature?

 

Not Amazon HD. You still need a renderer. Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz etc do not have one built into their apps I'm afraid, but you can stream from those three accounts from within Bubble.

Even Roon does not support Amazon HD at the moment.

5) Why do CHORD themselves say, "Hotspot mode allows the device to act as a router, this should only be used for portable devices that cannot access 'personal hotspot mode' where the network provider has place restriction. YOUR SMARTPHONE MAY NO LONGER ne able to access the internet when connected to POLY" ?

 

The Poly's Hotspot mode does not connect to the internet and allows files stored locally on the phone to be streamed to the poly.

It is useful if you are abroad and cannot use your phone as a personal mobile hotspot.

6) Surely, this implies that there are or could be instances when you CAN access the internet and further that 'personal hotspot mode' must serve a purpose being what exactly???

 

Yes, I stand corrected see my answer to q 1 🙂

I hope to finalise what I will be purchasing today, as during this lock-down I have now spent 3 days religiously reading, for 12 hours plus and have read almost 5000 pages across 130 open-tabs on my computer, 100+ on my phone and 100+ on the tablet.

I use a iPhone X and a Samsung S10+; what is the best DAC for me and the best audiophile headset (wired) that I can use, in the budget I have stated; someone please put me out of my misery.

 

Portable or not so portable?

 

If portable then buy a Mojo to start with, use USB audio pro on the Samsung and stream directly from the iPhone to the Mojo from Amazon music (I assume that the iPhone has a decent USB codec, not like the Samsungs rubbish one?).

 

If not portable then the Hugo2 is awesome!!

All advice/help/guidance is truly appreciated.

 

I really hope this helps a bit, let me know how you have got on!

Mike

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Akinobu, I spent days fiddling with the Poly trying to figure it out, it was so annoying, but I have finally got there!
One mistake I made was to use a 4G WiFi dongle to connect both devices when I could have used the hotspot on the phone.
I got this wrong because I first tried it when abroad and mobile hotspot is not supported when roaming!
I really am stumped by the Bluetooth connection, as mine just works (which is ironic as I never use it!). This sounds stupid, but try renaming the Poly, re-discovering and reconnecting.
Does the go figure app work as this also need a Bluetooth connection to the poly?
Kind regards
Mike
PS I hope you have the snapdragon processor as the Exynos one is hot, slow and power-hungry!
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Naz, as a follow up to this, have a look at this forum. The S20 does not work properly with any DAC it appears without 3rd party software!
https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/Galaxy-S20-S20-S20-Ultra/usb-c-DAC-audio-clicking-popping/m-p/16...
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