Thanks all for the suggestions.  I seemed to have resolved my problem by assigning fixed IP addresses to all my devices.  I will consider buying a  5 Ghz router though. ... View more

I have been using a HW-K650 with 2 R6's for surround sound connected to my Samsung SmartTV over Wi-Fi for almost a year with no problems until recently when the TV will not connect to the soundbar  reliably when the it is grouped with the R6's. Works fine just with the soundbar and subwoofer, no R6's, over wifi.  I have reset everything and reconfigured it all but no luck. I have noticed that a network named DIRECT-CG[TV] Tizen appears in the list of available networks on my mac. Is that normal?   The software versions on the devices are: 3117.1/134R on the R6's and 3117.3/0348.0R. The TV EU49 8 Series has software 1321. Any help with this problem would be appreciated. I suspect it might be a network problem but Netflix streams fine over  the Wi-Fi connection to the TV.  I don't think there has been a recent update for these devices? Thanks in advance. ... View more

MY UE49KS8000 was updated with new software yesterday. Not sure what the effect was but I don't think it was to do with the WIFI 5.1. Having said that, with the HW-K650 volume set to about 25% and the R1's at about 75%, the surround sound effect is quite impressive. Trying to find movies on Netflix that might emphasise it, Antman (I know!) and scenes from Helix, certainly demonstrated a good spatial effect. I think finally, the system is there and behaves to acceptable level, for me at least. ... View more

Hi LeeLazer, I have played the Dolby Amaze and I agree it is impressive.  From what you say it is obviously the content of the stuff I watch that limits my experience.  I'd hate to swap the HW-K650 & R1 system for a differnt setup and find it little better.     Does any one know if R3's perform better the R1's in the surround sound department?  I imagine though it would not be worth the price hike.   ... View more

I have just updated my R1's with no issues other than not knowing what it does!      I have to concede that although I was initially happy with the improvement to the surround sound through the latest HW-K650 frimware update I still feel that there is something lacking with the surround sound.  Sure the test files work well enough but real life use still leaves me underwhelmed on the whole.  Perhaps it is down to the programmes I watch or the position of my R1's. ... View more

@simon_w wrote: I have also done the TV firmware update and can confirm the surround over WiFi still works fine - phew !!   Just to clear up some confusion from earlier posts:   LPCM vs PCM - In the context of our soundbars these are exactly the same thing.  Strictly LPCM stands for Linear Pulse Code Modulation which is the type of PCM used for WAV format audio. (Another type of encoding is Log PCM but that is not used for WAVs)   DTS vs DOLBY 5.1 - The HW-K650 can process Stereo WAV files and Dolby 5.1 Surround files.  It cannot process DTS surround, nor can it process Dolby ATMOS 7.1 or other higher channel count formats.  But some DVD and BluRay players can be set to recode a DTS output into Dolby for compatibility.  The DTS absence in the K650 is simply a cost saving as the DTS technology requires a licence fee payable by the manufacturer and ultimately the end user.   "But I hear surround when I set the TV to PCM" - Yes and No... The K650 processes true discrete 5.1 channel surround when fed with a Dolby 5.1 bitstream. When fed with a PCM stereo (2.0) source it synthesises a surround field from the stereo information and presents this on the rears - the same happens if you create a surround group in the multiroom app and play a stereo audio track through the group.  The front left and right on the soundbar will exactly reproduce the intended L&R Stereo, the centre channel will be created from the Mono component of the stereo source (mainly dialogue) and the sub channel will pick up the low frequencies from the stereo source.  Much of the time this sounds really good but it is not the surround mix as intended by the film producer.   Volume settings - It is likely that when playing Dolby 5.1 sources the volume level will need to be increased as compared with Stereo sources.  This reflects the fact that each channel is being fed discretely.  But also check that your offset in the TVs wireless speaker manager is not too extreme - if the soundbar is still set low it will exacerbate this.  Based on streaming the "Spooks" movie from Netfix last night I was getting excellent surround and clear dialogue with the Soundbar set in the middle position and the rears just two clicks higher. Thanks for this clear explanation of PCM v DD.  This reflects my experience exactly. ... View more

I have tested my system, UE49KS8000 and HWK650W and 2 xR1's since updating all to the latest software.  It is true that the volume level playing PCM format  is significantly higher than when Audio is set to PCM.  However, having used the Fraunhofer EBU Tech 3304-4.1 BLITS test file, played from a USB input, PCM does not render distinct 5.1 over Wi-Fi.  With the TV's Audio Format set to Dolby Digital, on the other hand, fully separated, well-balanced channels are evident, comparable to the optical workaround.      Having said that, the PCM rendition when playing content  from SKY or Netflix, seems to me more immersive and "in-your-face" than DD which  seems to lack volume and punch overall, unless the sound control is cranked way up.   If I remember correctly, that was the case with the optical work around too before the big fix.   So by updating the TV firmware, I don't think I have compromised the big fix! (Breaths a sigh of relief). ... View more

Being reckless, I updated my UE49KS8000 to the latest firmware.  The only change I have noticed is that if the speaker system is not grouped, my R1's now appear when I scroll through the Select Speaker option in the TV's menu which I can't remember seeing previously.   Is that  correct or am I imagining things? ... View more

Well, well!  I think we have or should I say Robbie has, achieved a result.   I have just listened to various test files from a USB stick source and the effect over WiFi certainly seems to be there as it was not before.   It seems to work correctly from the TV’s wireless speaker manager consistently which will obviate the need to faff around with the multitroom app from a mobile device. For my home environment, setting the rears to 40% and the soundbar to 50% gives a satisfactory result with the test files.  I still need to set the correct audio format as Netflix seems to needs it set to PCM whereas the test file worked well in Dolby Digital . I’ll resist throwing my hat in the air for the moment until I’m truly convinced and the more knowledgable agree that it is fixed to an acceptable standard when viewing TV/BluRay content. I wonder if this will be the last software update for this system if we (users of the system) express satisfaction.   It does look like a huge thank you to Robbie is in order though.:smileyhappy: ... View more

Sounds promising... I hope it delivers so that you can put this time consuming project to bed! ... View more

@GliMM wrote: -Update3- I finally got a call from my Samsung Voice Of Customer contact, that I got to take over the case from the First Line support due to obvious reasons, (read my earlier 2 posts). He has now looked in to this further but the responsible technician was not available. But he made the following statements after looking in to their back end support systems. Samsung are aware of the issue with the K650/660 Soundbar and the R1 speakers. The issue was introduced in a firmware update released in January 2017 They are working on a new firmware that will resolve the problem He could not say anything more than the above, he will look in to this even further and report back to me as soon as he has anything to add. He can of course not say when this new firmware will be released or if they are actually able to resolve it. But it proves that I'm not crazy and Samsung acknowledge that there is a spoon.. I mean issue.. I will keep you guys updated. Well done for pursuing Samsung over this.  If I am not mistaken their statement is the first acknowledgement by Samsung that they caused the issue with a firmware roll-out.  Is that correct?   If they understand the issue, there should be little difficulty in resolving it if it is simply a software fault as they had the wi-fi method working previously.         ... View more

@Robbienobs wrote: Hi all,    Samsung have emailed today to advise their team have been testing an update and she awaits confirmation from them of when this update will be rolled out.      Could this be it?   Should I hold my breathe while counting my chickens and should the champagne be on ice?  .... Probably not.     I am more inclined now to think that the fault is with the TV wi-fi output but hope I am wrong. ... View more

@Robbienobs wrote: I habe asked for commentary on updates before and it came to nothing. I will ask again. Hi Robbienobbs,   Please don't spend time on this for my sake.  I just wondered if anyone knew off the top of their heads. ... View more

As I posted earlier, the 1169.2 update made no appreciable difference to the issue. My TV updated automatically last week - I caught a brief glimpse of the notification before it disappeared from the screen otherwise I would not have known. Is it possible to find out what these updates fix? ... View more

TV: UE49KS8000    Firmware 1169.2     HW-K650                  Firmware 3111.2  2 x R1's                       Firmware 3112.5 (both) ... View more

@Robbienobs wrote: Trading standard and Which now contacted with all email addresses supplied to them. I have used the email thread I have from head office so they have instant record of the situation. Lets see what happens. Thanks for the update. :smileyhappy: ... View more

@Robbienobs wrote: I habe sent this to samsung in response to their email regarding CEO contact for what it's worth:   Dear Kirsty, Thanks for your email regarding the direction of my correspondence; unfortunately the issue I have is that when I concentrate my efforts on communication through the correct channels, it has finally come to nothing but denial from Samsung that any issues remain,and that basically its good enough. I am still hoping your senior management team see that there needs to be some additional investment in getting the firmware where it should be, and show its customers some real commitment to quality with resolving these faults. I am in the process of communicating with the BBC's Watchdog programme including all of the email addresses of other who will corroborate the issues and Samsung's handling of the faults with their firmware updates. I would rather not spend additional time in doing this as I have spent hours upon hours writing, testing and posting to attempt to get a fix. I have also found that when I purchased the Samsung soundbar and R1's, this was first advertised this as fully wifi capable with the tv that I have (2016 K Series), but now the way the product is advertised by samsung has been amended; I have screen shots from the Samsung products pages as evidence of this from last year. Samsung have quiet cleverly added the generic term "Cable connection required from Soundbar to TV to receive 5.1 surround sound". This is due to be communicated to Trading Standards tomorrow to include this change in advertising and also the issue that Samsung appear to want to not include the firmware as part of the product, resulting in what can only been viewed as a breach of Samsung's Warrantee that clearly states you will either repair or replace the faulty product. Samsung are basically now just arguing symantics as no matter who views the evidence in hand, the product is obviously faulty and not operating as advertised at the time of purchase; the firmware is clearly part of the product itself and as such must be included in the warranty. Furthermore your service partners confirmed the issues are present and agreed fully that it was not operating as it should, only for Samsung to then change this guys report to suit their own ends; this end would be to constantly deny that the product is faulty. I will say that the only part of this whole episode I am vaguely happy with is your communications, albeit limited by input from the various teams involved (and senior management I would imagine). Your own website states that "Quality Assurance" will "Surpass all Expectations". "Samsung ensures the consistent delivery of excellence based on an effective quality management system that guarantees our products and services, beyond customer expectations". I repeat "beyond customer expectations" not good enough for Samsung! Regards,   Go to this link for quality statements   http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/about-us/quality-assurance/ You should also point out that the user manual for the R1's clearly states (page 13 I think) that when setting up a 5.1 Wi-Fi system a cable is required for non-Samsung Tv's or pre 2016 Samsung models.      Regards ... View more

@scott wrote: Im not convinced that it is the soundbars firmware that is the problem. I think it could be our tvs firmware that is borking the rears sound output. D.in/optical workaround cellphone multiroom app configures soundbar+360s for surround sound. Wifi the tvs wireless speaker manager/multiroom link settings configures soundbar+360s for surround sound. If you configure with multiroom app, tv will reconfigure as soon as you select hw-k650+2ch(wi_fi). I have a samsung 4k bluray player that has a smart hub that allows for configuring soundbar+2ch(wi-fi) and the rears play loud and clear. I dont use it because it is too tinny sounding. Not sure why, but it is definitely playing 5.1. I agree that you are correct in principle.  However, some claim that the system worked as intended out of the box, only for it to fail to do so after a FW update to the HW-K650.  So, it would appear that a concomitant update of the TV firmware to ensure continued compatibility, was required at the same time.   My TV KS8000 has had a few updates since I purchased it, one only a few days ago, but these have not addressed the issue.  Since your BluRay player works, the fault would seem to lie in the encoding to WiFi prior to communication between the TV and soundbar.   In 5.1 Wi-Fi configurtion is the sound bar acting as the hub which relays the signal to the 360's?  The 360's are not the fault.     ... View more

@Robbienobs wrote: Hi Abob,    I have tried this before and split my router to 5 and 2.4 and went through a test procedure with all the kit on each one.    Made no difference for me. Even bought a Samsung hub and connected everything to that, which then connects to the router through a LAN lead, which rules out the wifi issues and still no joy. I still have the hub now and try it every time we have an update just in case a miracle has occurred at Samsung.    And from memory even with automatic updates turned off it still forces upgrade to latest firmware; I was going to try using the Samsung hub without connecting it to the router but never got round to see what effect it had, and too late for me now to prevent update.    Also when connected to the hub I still have the power off standby issues.    With regards to the firmware downgrade; I tried this previously and even the Samsung engineer stated this was something even they couldn't do............might save someone some time in trying.    I would imagine you would need the equivalent of a phone jailbreak to be in with a chance of rolling this back, and even then I think chances are slim.    I wish one of these phone hackers would buy this kit and fix the firmware............ I bet it wouldn't take long.  I would suspect that the older firmware update need only be identified in the code as a newer firmware update to overwrite the existing firmware and effect the installation as this code is probably stored in a EPROM chip which is electrically erasable.   Samsung are able to do this .  It is not beyond them even if it requires combining the component code to regain the WIFI function with other fixes they have developed since - it is just their lack of commitment. ... View more

@Robbienobs wrote: Hi Nick I commented on this a while back that Samsung have changed the way they advertise the surround capability of the system online...........bit crafty if you ask me. I just so happen to have a screen shot of the old description from some months ago I was thinking maybe the fix isn't as easy as first thought..........but then reminded myself it worked fine out the box before they started playing with the firmware. Crafty is putting it mildly.  The note at the bottom of the page I reffered to is an admission that WiFi 5.1 is not supported, it seems to me. ... View more

@Nick0 wrote: I am not genned-up on all the technicalities of Bitstream/ PCM /DTS 2 etc.  To re-appraise myself of the specs of the HWK650, I revisited its product description on Samsung.com.   Now, I don't know if I missed it before or not but underneath the description of the 5.1 surround sound capabilites with Radiants, an asterixed comment states the " *Cable connection required from Soundbar to TV to receive 5.1 surround sound".  Is this an amendment Samsung  have made recently to this page?   http://www.samsung.com/uk/audio-video/soundbar-k65x/HW-K651XU/   I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that the cable connection was only required for non-Samsung TV's for wireless surround sound but was this referring to 3.1 surround sound only? I found where I read the part in which Samsung state that a cable is required.  It is on page 13 of my printed Owner Manual for the Radiant speakers, titled "Wireless AUDIO 360", under Checklist before Connection.    It clearly indicates that the cable connection is not required for Samsung Smart TV's released after 2014.      I find it concerning that the HW-K650 web page currently contradicts my printed manual for the speakers.   Does this mean that Samsung now have dropped any claim for WiFi surround capabilities and so will not be remedying the fault? ... View more

I am not genned-up on all the technicalities of Bitstream/ PCM /DTS 2 etc.  To re-appraise myself of the specs of the HWK650, I revisited its product description on Samsung.com.   Now, I don't know if I missed it before or not but underneath the description of the 5.1 surround sound capabilites with Radiants, an asterixed comment states the " *Cable connection required from Soundbar to TV to receive 5.1 surround sound".  Is this an amendment Samsung  have made recently to this page?   http://www.samsung.com/uk/audio-video/soundbar-k65x/HW-K651XU/   I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that the cable connection was only required for non-Samsung TV's for wireless surround sound but was this referring to 3.1 surround sound only? ... View more

Apologies, I realised they were the 8000's and was in the process of editing while you were posting a reply. ... View more

@Peejay84 wrote: Thank you for your efforts! I'm looking at MS 650 specs, and it turns out that Samsung is back with the swa9000 for rear surround (the set that was used with k550) .   It's a completely different tech, a wireless amplifier with 2 speaker that aren't wireless. From what I remember you connect them to the soundbar the same way you connect the subwoofer to hw k650, so you don't even need a Multiroom app for that.    Those really aren't good news for us, because it means samsung has abandoned surround by Multiroom tech completely.      I researched the SWA8000 kit before going for the R1's and they were available for around £99 but the HW-K650 soundbar is not listed as being compatible with the SWA8000S kit.  Notably, the manual for the new SWA9000's does not state that HW-K650 is compatible either.  So are these now compatible?  I  see Curry's have them for £179. ... View more

  @Robbienobs wrote: Hi all,    Latest response from Samsung Head office below following inclusion of 30 odd email addresses from customers;   Dear Mr H****y,   I have now provided all communication to the senior management within our organisation for their review of these cases. I will respond on their behalf following their discussion.   Regards   Thanks for the update.  We live in hope! ... View more

Hi Kevlarr, I have just tried the test file in the Web Browser app again and the top listed file 5.1 SurroundSound AAC Test, is the only one which delivers truly discreet output to the separate channels. Whether the others should or not, I do not know.  However, having repated the tests of WiFi v Optical, the optical seems to give slightly relaively louder sound from the rears with this particular file.   I hasten to add, I have not measured the levels objectively. When I alter the volume either up or down the levels of the rears do not drop in volume but maintain their relative volume. I tried downloading some of the files from that site to a USB stick but cannot get any to function like the one I have highlighted. ... View more

Yes, but the thing that surprised me was the identical sound levels of the R1's and the discrete separation with one particular test file over both WiFi and Optical without having to alter the default volume levels in the App which is not replicated unfortunately, in real-life viewing. I agree that lip-sync often arises when programmes are paused or the source is changed. ... View more

This morning I submitted my complaint to the CEO and then went back to looking at a test file I had been using. The file was from:   https://archive.org/details/5.1SurroundSoundTestFilesVariousFormatsAACAC3MP4DTSWAV   I played this directly through the Web Browser on my Samsung TV.   I had tried this last night and did not get it to indicate acceptable surround sound using the wireless set up but it did indicate  a degree 5.1 separation when the optical connection was used.   However, this morning, when I changed the Audio Format on the TV to Dolby Digital, one of the 5 files available, the top listed namely, “1. 5.1 Surround Sound AAC test” clearly demonstarted discrete separation of all channels, including the sub-woofer. None of the other files dd so.   Surprisingly, this worked equally well whether using optical or the wifi only connections.although having to reconfigure Surround Sound on the App when changing sources back to D.IN   I followed these steps:   Set Soundbar to D.IN Set TV Speaker ouput to Audio out/Optical Checked Group in Multiroom App set to Surround Sound Set HDMI to PCM (probably irrelevant) Set Audio Format to Dolby Digital Used the test file 5.1 ACC and noted discrete separation of all 5.1 channels with proper volume levels.   Accessed TV Settings   Selected “[AV] Samsung Sounbar K650 + 2CH (Wi-Fi)” Noted Soundbar connects through WiFi Noted that the Speakers were automatically regrouped in the Multiroom App when changing from Optical to Wi-Fi. Played the test file again and the result was identical to that using Optical   The particular test files are I think, simply the one file formatted to different codecs. and so are based upon a single recording but only the one behaves as I think it should. Yet, when watching TV through SKY, Netflix etc., the WiFi still fails to deliver an obvious surround sound effect.  Is the abilty of the TV/Soundbar to decode various formats very restricted?  (I am no expert on audio file formats as you can see.)   I would be interested to hear if anyone can replicate this and your views on what implications it has for a wifi solution.   <I have edited this to make it clearer> ... View more

Hi, I have sent the following message to the CEO using the link Robbienobs supplied.  Initially, it did not send but I think this was a time-out so I refereshed the form and pasted my communication back in the blank field and it was dispatched successfully.   "Dear CEO,   I have taken the trouble to contact you as I am very dissatisfied with the performance of my Samsung HW-K650 sound bar when trying to use them wirelessly as a WiFi connected 5.1 surround system. This email is in support of the contact made with you under the above customer reference. Personally, I bought a new Samsung UE49KS8000 TV in Oct 16 and after much online research, I bought the HW-K650 3.1 sound bar because it offered the opportunity to create a 5.1 wireless WiFi surround sound system. When, in March 17, I then purchased two Radiant 360 R1's I was impressed by the sound quality. At that stage the speakers did an automatic firmware update. BUT when I set up the system with WiFI grouped to deliver 5.1 surround sound using the official protocol, I was very disappointed to discover that the surround sound experience was woefully inadequate. Within an hour of taking delivery of them, I was considering returning them as faulty but thought I would do some research to see if I was alone with this problem. A brief online search revealed that many others, in the US and UK on the Samsung Community websites., were discussing the poor volume of the R1's in WIFi surround sound mode. There are others. One retailer (Curry UK) product feedback also has customer reviews highlighting this problem.   I contacted first-line Samsung customer services who in response, utterly failed to appreciate the fault. Subsequently, the firmware of the HW-K650 and R1's has been remotely updated but this HAS NOT corrected the fault. Without the support of the UK Samsung Community forums where one member had discovered a method using the optical cable connection to get an acceptable surround sound experience which is very inconvenient to control, I would have returned the speakers as I would have no use for them. Using a cable is claimed by Samsung to be only necessary when the sound bar is used with non-Samsung TV's.   The bottom line is that the HW-K650 with R1's connected wirelessly by WiFi to a Samsung smart TV (UE49KS8000) fails to deliver the surround sound experience one would expect, as claimed in the product description. e.g. From a retailers website: "Create true surround sound without wires Enjoy the freedom to fill every room of your home with music by adding Samsung Multiroom speakers to the system or create your own wireless 5.1 surround system."   It is edifying to compare the R1's rear speaker output using the optical cabled TV-to-sound bar connection with the WiFi wireless set up. In comparison, the wireless setup falls woefully short of satisfactory for me and many others.   It is a shame that this one issue, which must be within the ability of your engineers to resolve, blights an otherwise excellent system and concept! I do hope that you can encourage those responsible to find the solution to this fault or lack of performance and accept the gratitude of all those affected.   I look forward to receiving your response.   Yours faithfully   A. Nicol"   I hope I have not understated the problem. ... View more

I bought my 2 x R1's from RicherSounds, a bargain at £178. I doubt they are aware of the problem with the HW-K650 communicating with the Smart TV's when grouping the R1's in WiFI mode but it might be worth enquiring. ... View more