Lip sync on Q90R with 5.1 input

[d00p]

I -- and judging from posts in various fora on the web, a lot of other customers -- experience lip sync issues with 5.1 surround sound input on the Q90R (firmware v1066).

Specifically, I experience this on TV channels that are broadcast with 5.1 sound, but not on TV channels that are broadcast with only stereo sound.

This means that I can watch a show on one TV channel with the (stereo) sound and picture in perfect sync, and then simply change channel to another TV channel to experience a mismatch between the (surround) sound and picture. Switching back to the first TV channel, the (stereo) sound and picture is again in perfect sync. So lame 😕

The lip sync issues are present using the Q90R built-in speakers as well as with a Sonos Amp -- however, again, only with 5.1 TV channels, which also means that I cannot use the options for adding a general delay on the sound/picture as that, while perhaps fixing the 5.1 TV channels, will simply shift the issue to the stereo TV channels.

@Samsung: Needless to say, having such issues on a flagship model is really bad.. What are the plans for fixing this (expectedly, through a firmware update to get the TV to process 5.1 sound input properly)?

[m-oc]

In terms of contacting Samsung (UK) use this link:

https://contactus.samsung.com/customer/contactus/formmail/mail/MailQuestionGeneralNew.jsp?siteId=594...

or search for "contact Samsung CEO UK"

I don't remember the exact process but they send a code or something like that either to your TV or to your phone. It allows a remote session just like on your computer for support. 

[userjYtfoTda0t]

---

Agreed except for your last part:

@NickJ2 wrote:

...For manufacturers like Samsung you can actually use their screen's video delay to offset some arriving audio delay.  For example if the screen delay is 50 ms turning the audio delay to zero may give you enough video delay to offse some arriving audio delay.

But some other major manufacturers actually aggravate the problem of delayed audio! Amazingly those manufacturers add an audio delay to offset their screen delay and don't give users the ability to turn the delay OFF. In those cases it's best to never let the TV touch the audio.

---

This is actually the problem with Samsung, (at least the Q90R). The slider does not bring the audio delay to 0. 

What other TV manufacturers and models are you refering to?

At least my Q90R seems to have a fixed video processing delay, so bypassing the TV for external audio and set a fixed delay in my AVR works for me.

[Weegro]

---

@Walternate wrote:

Hey there

I have the exact issue discussed in this 10 page (so far) thread with my recently purchased 55" Q90R which is connected to my SONOS via HDMI3 (ARC). My Setup is;

Sky-Q to TV via HDMI1 port

TV to SONOS Beam via HDMI3 (ARC) port

sound set on both TV and within Sky to "DD"

TV Software version is 1315 with no OTA update, but I saw a response a number of replies back that you can download 1335 direct from Samsung.

Now, before I updated to 1335 I found that connecting my Sky-Q directly to my SONOS Beam (utilising the SONOS supplied HDMI to optical dongle) there was ZERO sound sync issues - so if this option suits you, then I recommend that option, but clearly we all have very different setups, so....

I found a perculiar option within the TV settings which vastly reduced sound sync to near impercievable negative delay (but not 100%) when connecting via HDMI ARC to my SONOS sound bar, so I though i would try the same setting after manually updating to version 1335...

 ... I would say this is now pretty much 99.9% lip-sync'd (for me), please give this a try to see if it helps.. YMMV!!!

Settings > Support > Self Diagnosis > Signal Information > Signal History > HDMI Delay Level > (adjust and test as required) Options are "Basic" "Slow1" "Slow2" I am currently using Slow 2 with Sound delay in TV and Sky set to "0" and this is nigh on perfect for me.

---

I think you're on to something?

I've got Virgin TiVo V6, 65 Q85 and Sonos Beam.

Dolby is awful as discussed but I thought I was still noticing a slight delay with TiVo on PCM as well.

Setting the TiVo to PCM and using Slow 1 looks perfect, and changing TiVo to Dolby and using Slow 2 looks pretty close as well!

[NickJ2]

I was refering to Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, etc. models I have seen which add a delay equal to what they think their screen delay is and don 't allow the user to turn it off. Those manufacturers apparently think the signals arrive in sync and that they will keep it in sync by cancelling the video delay their screens add.  I normally suggest doing exactly what you have done and never giving the audio to the TV so it can't delay it.

[bcab17]

---

@Rizel23 wrote:

I have my 75Q90 connected direct to my Q90 now     Using the HDMI inputs on the sound bar for Sky HD and Nvidia Shield.

Utilising the in built delay from settings from support\selfdiagnosis\signal information\search history;

 I now have perfect audio sync from PCM upto Dolby Vision. 

Inbuilt apps have always had perfect sync via ARC to the sound bar. 

Overall an excellent set up now 👍

---

"Using the HDMI inputs on the sound bar for Sky HD and Nvidia Shield."

I've been on so many forum posts, I'm not sure if this was covered here, but your connecting your external devices to the soundbar has been a "known fix" for the lip-sync problem (with or without "std, slow 1 or slow 2" settings).

In my experience (and most others), the problem occurs when external devices are connected to the TV (not the soundbar), and it's specific to multi-channel codecs like DD. For example, change the audio output from DD to 2-CH on my cable box (connected to the TV with HDMI), and there's no lip-sync problem. Change audio back to DD, and the lip-sync problem is back. So, if you're ok giving up DD, and are perfectly happy with stereo audio, then set your devices and TV to PCM, and you're good to go.

I don't want to give up multi-channel audio.

As per NickJ2's excellent post, ("...it's best to never let the TV touch the audio."), connecting directly to the soundbar results in no lip-sync problem. This is a perfectly good solution...if you have enough HDMI inputs on your soundbar, ARC is working perfectly, you're willing to forgo some CEC functionality, and do all your input switching on the soundbar while not using any TV input except ARC (which can result in the need for multiple remotes).

Also, when connecting external devices to the soundbar, and connecting the soundbar and tv with ARC, the tv "sees" all your external devices on one input. For me, it's my cable box and Roku Ultra (I can't use my BD player because my Q80R soundbar only has two HDMI inputs). Since both devises are sharing one TV input, you can't "set and save" your picture settings differently for each source.

For example, if the cable box and Roku were connected to different TV inputs (in a world where this lip-sync problem dosen't exist) you could use SDR picture settings for the cable box (and save them to that specific input), and use HDR picture settings for the Roku (also saving them for the Roku input). Then, whenever you switch TV inputs for cable or Roku, their respective picture settings are automatically used. When connected to the soundbar to avoid the lip-sync issue, they're both on the same TV input, so the devices share the same picture settings. Of course, you can go into picture settings and change them everytime you switch between soundbar-connected sources (sorry, that's not a great option for me, my wife or the kids).

I think the core issue for most of us is that we all purchased an expensive, high-end TV with a simple expectation of having it display our sources properly (including synced audio-video). Connecting everything to the soundbar is a workaround for some people, but NOT using the TV's HDMI inputs substantially reduces much of the functionality and features for which many of us chose this TV in the first place.

[userjYtfoTda0t]

Hi bcab17, off-topic but just a comment to your SDR/HDR example (in case you didn't know). The TV senses SDR/HDR in the signal and switches automatically between different picture "expert" settings, also on the same input.

[MrTest]

Appreciate the  responses after initially posting yesterday.  @userjYtfoTda0t  and @NickJ2 as noted, something is clearly happening with the audio arriving delayed from the TV.

I spent a bit longer last night tinkering... Within the context of hooking up a PS4 to the TV in order to take advantage of the excellent input latency in Q80R. As previously mentioned, issue is with surround (DOLBY [Digital + DTS]) with ARC to Q80 soundbar with relation to audio lag. So...

Connected PS4 primary audio for optical directly to soundbar, so not going anywhere near anything the TV does. On the PS4 you can set primary format (that is sent down optical) to LPCM / Bitstream (Dolby) / Bitstream (DTS), but it also sends simple stereo down the HDMI (which I can hear through the TV) providing opportunity to see if they match 🙂

• LPCM has no lag (but it stereo down optical which I don't want)
• Bitstream (Dolby) there is a delay. Can hear clearly upon firing something in a game there is a difference between the stereo mix from the TV and then comes the optical channel on the soundbar. To my mind this is the time it's taking the soundbar to decode Dolby digital.
• Bitstream (DTS) is good however so I'm onto a winner 🙂 From what I read briefly DTS has lower decoding timing as it's not as compressed as Dolby digital???

So in theory this puts me in a position where things work on decent input lag and surround audio, HOWEVER (and this is a big one)...

• In order to use Optical In on the soundbar I need to disable HDMI Anynet+ on the TV because the input channels on the soundbar won't move off ARC, but
• Disabling HDMI Anynet+ also means that ARC is disabled so if I want to use the soundbar for audio through the TV apps like Amazon, BBC iPlayer etc I need to turn it back on again in the menus
• In the mean time as or normal broadcast comes through external cable box the kids are using audio direct from TV for now

Have I missed something here as this is a lot of faffing around but also means it's not possible to have audio from both connected devices to the soundbar + those from the TV without changing config each time..... this all then comes back to awkwardness of TV processing and configuration. As as @bcab17 highlighted well:

"I think the core issue for most of us is that we all purchased an expensive, high-end TV with a simple expectation of having it display our sources properly (including synced audio-video). Connecting everything to the soundbar is a workaround for some people, but NOT using the TV's HDMI inputs substantially reduces much of the functionality and features for which many of us chose this TV in the first place."

I'm hoping Samsung are taking note here, and as discovered on reddit relating to updates potentially to look at enabling eARC, tells me this is clearly an area they have problems with:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Soundbars/comments/dz0ihk/samsung_hwq90r_earc_q80r_and_q70r_firmware_update...

---

[bcab17]

---

@userjYtfoTda0t wrote:
Hi bcab17, off-topic but just a comment to your SDR/HDR example (in case you didn't know). The TV senses SDR/HDR in the signal and switches automatically between different picture "expert" settings, also on the same input.

---

That's good to know. Thank you for that info. I had read in some AVS forums about the Q90R not retaining SDR and HDR picture settings, and the "fix" was to save them for the "current source"...I assumed that meant that retaining specific picture settings was based on saving them to a specific tv input. I will test this later. 

Again, thanks. 

[Nitewalker]

I've recently purchased a Q90 65" and the HW-Q90R soundbar and like many others have severe audio sync issues when trying to watch anything from my V6 Virgin box. While I know I can change the setting to PCM To resolve the problem my view is why bother with the soundbar if I'm going to downsample the audio?

ive spent in excess of 7hra on the phone to Samsung support and today an engineer arrived to have a look at the problem. The engineer was at the house for less than 5mins and advised the problem can't be resolved unless I connect everything direct to the soundbar and remove the ARC connection then use multiple remote controls etc.

unfortunately this isn't the experience I signed up for so tomorrow the whole setup will be getting returned to the store.

[bcab17]

---

@Nitewalker wrote:

I've recently purchased a Q90 65" and the HW-Q90R soundbar and like many others have severe audio sync issues when trying to watch anything from my V6 Virgin box. While I know I can change the setting to PCM To resolve the problem my view is why bother with the soundbar if I'm going to downsample the audio?

ive spent in excess of 7hra on the phone to Samsung support and today an engineer arrived to have a look at the problem. The engineer was at the house for less than 5mins and advised the problem can't be resolved unless I connect everything direct to the soundbar and remove the ARC connection then use multiple remote controls etc.

unfortunately this isn't the experience I signed up for so tomorrow the whole setup will be getting returned to the store.

---

Please be aware that this lip-sync problem may also be present in other TV's. I have been in the same boat with many others, and yes, as of now, connecting devices to the soundbar fixes the lip-sync problem.

I love the PQ of the Q90R TV, so I have been looking for options. Since my Q80R soundbar would not work with both HDMI inputs connected to external sources, I picked up a SONOS 5.1 system during a sale (yes, expensive, and only DD...but I was so frustrated by the Samsung experience, I dedcided to give it a try).

Comparing the sound of the Sonos Playbar and Sub (for a fair comparison, I turned off the surrounds) to the Q80R soundbar and sub, the Sonos was superior (of course, this is subjective). The Q80R soundbar sounded nice and clear, while the Sonos Playbar sounded fuller, yet still clear. Honestly, I would be happy with either. It was the Sonos sub that blew away the Q80R sub...again,this may not be that important to some people (it is to me).

In order to be able to keep the audio signal from my external sources away from the TV, I will be using an Optical Audio Switcher (4 in, 1 out with remote control). My cable box, Roku, and BD player will be connected to the Q90R's OCB via HDMI. The Optical Audio out from these sources AND the TV will be connected to the switch box, with one Optical audio out going to the Sonos Playbar. There are many instances of this working perfectly on the Sonos forum (especially when using a Harmony or other programable remote to perform the TV and Switch Box input selection with a single button push). I will be trying it this weekend, and will report back.

I guess the same solution (Optical Switch box) would work with the Q80R soundbar...connecting to the D.IN input, and disconnecting ARC (if you don't mind giving up Atmos). The key to avoiding the lip-sync problem is to NOT send any DD audio to the TV.

Referring back to the original post regarding the Q90R's pass-through of DD...the answer is yes. I have tested all my externals connected to the Q90R and the TV connected to the Sonos Playbar via Optical. The Sonos app has a function that displays the type of audio being received by the Playbar. It was DD 5.1 from the cable box, Roku, and the TV's streaming apps. The one BD I tried had DD 2.0 listed as the only audio option in it's menu (so I will test other discs)...and that's what I got through the Playbar.

Enough about the Sonos. It's not the answer for many people. It just seems like Samsung does not have the interest or the inclinatiuon to consider the lip-sync issue an actual "problem", so I don't expect a firmware fix anytime soon.

If you're like me, and you love the PQ of the Q90R TV, at least there are some workarounds for the lip-sync issue. At this time, if you want to enjoy multi-channel audio from external sources, you have to connect them to the soundbar. If you have a soundbar with enough HDMI inputs that work well, along with solid CEC and HDMI ARC performance, you should be able to enjoy all codecs, including Atmos, without lip-sync problems. The other option is to go the Optical Audio route...no lip-sync issue, but no Atmos either.