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Original topic:

[KS OWNERS ONLY] Sky to introduce HDR content on Sky Q from March

(Topic created on: 27/02/18 11:24)
daleski75
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Seen this article just now https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/02/sky-uk-unveils-next-wave-sky-q-tv-feature-upgrades.htm... and it will be very interesting to see if our televisions get HDR content through Sky Q.

 

Not seen anything yet about the format but assuming its HLG.

 

Will keep this thread as up to date as I can.

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JAMES4578
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Remains to be seen how the HDR  development will affect 2016 owners (not one myself), however some interesting developments for Sky subscribers  (UHD content will be doubled) However my reading of it that whilst starting in Spring , some innovations will be further down the line and HDR will likely be limited initially.  https://www.skygroup.sky/corporate/media-centre/articles/en-gb/sky-q-takes-another-big-leap-forward

paul1111
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@AntS   What I have seen it will be HLG and it would be helpful if Samsung would confirm the KS and older will be able to watch the HLG streams.

BAMozzy
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@paul1111wrote:

@AntS   What I have seen it will be HLG and it would be helpful if Samsung would confirm the KS and older will be able to watch the HLG streams.


Its very likely to be HLG - at least as far as Sports (or any other Live broadcasts) like F1 and Football. This though is 'currently' the only 'live' 4k content - not to say that Sky won't implement HLG in other areas - inc HD content.

 

However, with their on-demand/catch up service - the only way they currently offer Movies and Box Sets in 4k - there is a possibility that these could be offered in HDR10 much like Netflix/Amazon. Sky could offer HDR10 - especially as the Movies are likely to be HDR10. Because these are not 'broadcast', Sky could offer the option to download and play in HDR10. It would probably work like it does now with SD, HD, 3D and UHD versions (where available) - just adding HDR as a 'download' option. There catch-up could also offer HLG for the sports as these are unlikely to be post-processed to add in the metadata so I wouldn't be surprised if HDR isn't 'just' HLG but a mix of both HLG and HDR10.

 

Of course its speculation as we haven't had clarification yet. Sky Italy were talking about HDR for the start of the F1 season - which as mentioned above, would have to be HLG for a live broadcast. However, the other aspect is that Sky are partnering with Netflix and there was mention of having 1000's of hours of HDR on SkyQ. This partnership would give Sky the HDR - albeit via Netflix and that is predominantly HDR10. I know some of that is also Dolby Vision too but I would be surprised if SkyQ offers Dolby Vision too - not saying its impossible but I do think unlikely.

 

Now that I have discussed what Sky could do, we don't know yet how that will work with the KS series. We know that HDR10 is possible over HDMI and that 'some' HLG is possible too. There are mixed reports about HLG over HDMI with DirectTV in the US not working but some success with External Satellite boxes in Europe. It seems that EDID (Extended Display Identification Data - the 'data' that displays use to communicate their capability to the source device) maybe an issue and that the DirectTV devices are not reading that the KS is HLG compatible so not delivering HLG - whether true or not, I don't know, I don't live in the US.

 

It would be a MASSIVE issue for Samsung though if Sky doesn't work with their KS series - especially as Samsung have been very clear that these TV's are enabled for 'Broadcast HLG'. I know its very disappointing that the third party iPlayer App cannot work properly with the current OS of the KS series - it can't even add UHD support and it seems that Samsung are saying its 'too dificult' to update the OS to be able to run the 4k HLG iPlayer App but they have reassured us that 'Broadcast' HLG will work and Sky are a MAJOR broadcaster.

paul1111
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I have heard that Sky are moving to over Internet and away from satellite and believe this is the case in Italy. This begs the question that BBC Iplayer is over Internet and could the Sky over Internet have the same issues with the KS and older as with Iplayer?

What would be nice is if Samsung actually came out and say where we stand and end all the concerns KS and older owners have.

Is that to much to ask because Samsung must know the answer and their non response I think is concerning. 

 

This is what happened with Iplayer that there was nothing from Samsung until KS owners found their TV's would not work with BBC Iplayer HLG, and then we never got an answer from Samsung, it was from third parties,  and now we know it is due to the Tizen 2.4, which it seems can not be updated. The 2017 sets have Tizen 3.0. Yet even now Samsung have not said any thing here! 

That is why I wait and hope my KS will work with Sky HLG.

JAMES4578
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Whilst Sky are introducing an internet only service firstly in Italy,Austria followed by the uk  the satellite service will be staying for the forseeable future. Long term it may be a different matter of course but some parts of the country currently do not have reliable broadband.  Which-Sky Without Dish     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42815603

 

With regard to HDR agree highly likely to be HLG, particularly for sport and is the broadcast standard.   According to the technical specifications guide : 

 

4.5.2: " The HDR must comply with ITU-R BT.2100 and conform to ITU-R BT.2020 colour space, using the PQ format to a minimum of 1000cd/m2 and with associated SMPTE ST 2086:2014 metadata. Sky will conform PQ content to the broadcast format of HLG10 at 1000cd/m2."

 

5.1.3: "PQ is the preferred delivery format and Sky will convert to HLG10 for playout. However, Licence Acquisitions are permitted to deliver HDR in the HLG10 format where stipulated by Licensor."

 

Quite a lengthy UHD document but will include here for those interested-HDR on page 9  Guidelines For UHD Content

paul1111
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As we now know that the chances Samsung will fix the Iplayer HLG is now nil, the attention has now shifted a little to the big question of will our KS be capable of receiving the SKY HDR/HLG, via HDMI, and HDR10+ in the future.

For KS owners who are really unhappy about this then I suggest the KS owners refund thread. 

For those who want to discuss the differences in HDR/HLG suggest you make a different thread, same with discussing different TV models.

For those who want to flood this thread with novels suggest you don't. 

For those who want to discuss and debate and yes have different opinions that is what these forums are for. 

For those who want to force opinions then as far as I am concerned please do not, we are not all tech experts and sometimes a bit of patience would be nice.

I hope we can keep this on track as per the thread. 

Also lets be nice.

daleski75
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I am keeping my eye out for any info on any test channels with HLG/HDR content for Sky just in case.

paul1111
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@daleski75wrote:

I am keeping my eye out for any info on any test channels with HLG/HDR content for Sky just in case.


That would be useful. We were told by someone using Sky italia that there may be an update in April, but don't know if that is correct as Samsung generally don't b broadcast when they are releasing updates.

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tarbat
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I have both a 2016 Samsung (KS8000) and a 2017/18 Samsung (MU6400). I also have access to an HDFury & EDID analysis software, so have compared the "HDR Static Metadata" the EDID provides for these two TVs.

 

The 2016 KS8000:

2016.jpg

 

And the 2017/18 MU6400:

2018.jpg

 

So, Samsung definately need to update our 2016 KS TVs to provide the correct EDID before Sky start transmitting HLG content.

daleski75
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@tarbatwrote:

I have both a 2016 Samsung (KS8000) and a 2017/18 Samsung (MU6400). I also have access to an HDFury & EDID analysis software, so have compared the "HDR Static Metadata" the EDID provides for these two TVs.

 

The 2016 KS8000:

2016.jpg

 

And the 2017/18 MU6400:

2018.jpg

 

So, Samsung definately need to update our 2016 KS TVs to provide the correct EDID before Sky start transmitting HLG content.


Was this done over hdmi I take it? If so I agree Samsung definitely need to update it before Sky broadcast HLG content or otherwise our KS tv's will not be able to display it at all.

tarbat
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@daleski75wrote:

Was this done over hdmi I take it? If so I agree Samsung definitely need to update it before Sky broadcast HLG content or otherwise our KS tv's will not be able to display it at all.


Yes, this was over HDMI. Unless Samsung correct the EDID data from our KS tv's, they will not accept HLG on their HDMI inputs. They'll only accept SDR and ST.2084, so they only other solution would be for Sky to put ST.2084 out on the HDMI interface instead of HLG, which is highly unlikely in my opinion.

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tarbat
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In case anyone with a technical interest is still reading this. I have now successfully proven that a 2016 KS8000 TV can accept HLG on it's HDMI inputs. By using my HDFury Integral to override the TV's EDID for HLG, and then generating an HDR infoframe injection, the TV auto-switched into HLG mode.

 

P1010871.JPG

P1010870.JPG

 

I then confirmed that what I was injecting was genuine HLG by repeating the exercise on my 2017 TV, which has the useful feature of actually displaying the gamma being used, and it correctly displayed HLG.

 

The infoframe used was:
87:01:1a:cc:03:00:34:21:aa:9b:96:19:fc:08:48:8a:08:39:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

 

So, this shows that as long as Samsung correct the EDID data, the Sky Q box should be able to send HLG to the TV.

UHDHDR
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@tarbatwrote:

In case anyone with a technical interest is still reading this. I have now successfully proven that a 2016 KS8000 TV can accept HLG on it's HDMI inputs. By using my HDFury Integral to override the TV's EDID for HLG, and then generating an HDR infoframe injection, the TV auto-switched into HLG mode.

 

P1010871.JPG

P1010870.JPG

 

I then confirmed that what I was injecting was genuine HLG by repeating the exercise on my 2017 TV, which has the useful feature of actually displaying the gamma being used, and it correctly displayed HLG.

 

The infoframe used was:
87:01:1a:cc:03:00:34:21:aa:9b:96:19:fc:08:48:8a:08:39:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

 

So, this shows that as long as Samsung correct the EDID data, the Sky Q box should be able to send HLG to the TV.


Nice!

 

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?

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paul1111
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@UHDHDRwrote:

@tarbatwrote:

In case anyone with a technical interest is still reading this. I have now successfully proven that a 2016 KS8000 TV can accept HLG on it's HDMI inputs. By using my HDFury Integral to override the TV's EDID for HLG, and then generating an HDR infoframe injection, the TV auto-switched into HLG mode.

 

P1010871.JPG

P1010870.JPG

 

I then confirmed that what I was injecting was genuine HLG by repeating the exercise on my 2017 TV, which has the useful feature of actually displaying the gamma being used, and it correctly displayed HLG.

 

The infoframe used was:
87:01:1a:cc:03:00:34:21:aa:9b:96:19:fc:08:48:8a:08:39:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

 

So, this shows that as long as Samsung correct the EDID data, the Sky Q box should be able to send HLG to the TV.


Nice!

 

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


Can ask what device are you using to get YouTube hlg via hdmi? 

Also if it you can get the edid sorted why do you think Samsung have not already done that? 

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UHDHDR
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@paul1111wrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

@tarbatwrote:

In case anyone with a technical interest is still reading this. I have now successfully proven that a 2016 KS8000 TV can accept HLG on it's HDMI inputs. By using my HDFury Integral to override the TV's EDID for HLG, and then generating an HDR infoframe injection, the TV auto-switched into HLG mode.

 

P1010871.JPG

P1010870.JPG

 

I then confirmed that what I was injecting was genuine HLG by repeating the exercise on my 2017 TV, which has the useful feature of actually displaying the gamma being used, and it correctly displayed HLG.

 

The infoframe used was:
87:01:1a:cc:03:00:34:21:aa:9b:96:19:fc:08:48:8a:08:39:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

 

So, this shows that as long as Samsung correct the EDID data, the Sky Q box should be able to send HLG to the TV.


Nice!

 

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


Can ask what device are you using to get YouTube hlg via hdmi? 

Also if it you can get the edid sorted why do you think Samsung have not already done that? 


Already addressed multiple times in the other thread. Stop spamming the same question over and over.

tarbat
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@UHDHDRwrote:

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


The HLG image looked, as expected, oversaturated, since the source material's gamma range is not HLG.  Although one surprise was that Wonder Woman UHD download from Sky Q actually looked quite good, which did make me wonder whether any of Sky's content is already encoded for HLG. Given that HLG is "backward-compatible" for normal SDR TVs, it's a possiblity that Sky already have some material with HLG gamma levels.

 

To override the EDID I used the standard HDFury Integral GUI. You can simply use the AUTOMIX function and enable HDR/HLG, and that works. However the approach I used was to capture the TVs EDID using HDFury, and then edit that in EEditGold software to add the HLG flag to the CEA extension. Export from EEditGold and load into the HDFury EDID table.

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UHDHDR
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@tarbatwrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


The HLG image looked, as expected, oversaturated, since the source material's gamma range is not HLG.  Although one surprise was that Wonder Woman UHD download from Sky Q actually looked quite good, which did make me wonder whether any of Sky's content is already encoded for HLG. Given that HLG is "backward-compatible" for normal SDR TVs, it's a possiblity that Sky already have some material with HLG gamma levels.

 

To override the EDID I used the standard HDFury Integral GUI. You can simply use the AUTOMIX function and enable HDR/HLG, and that works. However the approach I used was to capture the TVs EDID using HDFury, and then edit that in EEditGold software to add the HLG flag to the CEA extension. Export from EEditGold and load into the HDFury EDID table.


So you used to EEditGold to generate the Infoframe which you then loaded into the HDFury GUI?

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paul1111
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@UHDHDRwrote:

@tarbatwrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


The HLG image looked, as expected, oversaturated, since the source material's gamma range is not HLG.  Although one surprise was that Wonder Woman UHD download from Sky Q actually looked quite good, which did make me wonder whether any of Sky's content is already encoded for HLG. Given that HLG is "backward-compatible" for normal SDR TVs, it's a possiblity that Sky already have some material with HLG gamma levels.

 

To override the EDID I used the standard HDFury Integral GUI. You can simply use the AUTOMIX function and enable HDR/HLG, and that works. However the approach I used was to capture the TVs EDID using HDFury, and then edit that in EEditGold software to add the HLG flag to the CEA extension. Export from EEditGold and load into the HDFury EDID table.


So you used to EEditGold to generate the Infoframe which you then loaded into the HDFury GUI?


But what has this got to with sky hlg on ks Samsung TVs ? Which is what this thread is about. 

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UHDHDR
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@paul1111wrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

@tarbatwrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


The HLG image looked, as expected, oversaturated, since the source material's gamma range is not HLG.  Although one surprise was that Wonder Woman UHD download from Sky Q actually looked quite good, which did make me wonder whether any of Sky's content is already encoded for HLG. Given that HLG is "backward-compatible" for normal SDR TVs, it's a possiblity that Sky already have some material with HLG gamma levels.

 

To override the EDID I used the standard HDFury Integral GUI. You can simply use the AUTOMIX function and enable HDR/HLG, and that works. However the approach I used was to capture the TVs EDID using HDFury, and then edit that in EEditGold software to add the HLG flag to the CEA extension. Export from EEditGold and load into the HDFury EDID table.


So you used to EEditGold to generate the Infoframe which you then loaded into the HDFury GUI?


But what has this got to with sky hlg on ks Samsung TVs ? Which is what this thread is about. 


tarbat found a way to get Sky HLG to work on the KS TVs using the HDFury.

 

Try to keep up.

paul1111
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@UHDHDRwrote:

@paul1111wrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

@tarbatwrote:

@UHDHDRwrote:

I was thinking of purchasing an HDFury myself recently. I have two questions:

 

1. How did the HLG image look to you? When I play HLG from YouTube via HDMI, the image, especially skin tones, look very oversaturated.

 

2. How exactly did you override the TV's EDID and inject the infoframe for HLG? Did you use the HDFury's default GUI?


The HLG image looked, as expected, oversaturated, since the source material's gamma range is not HLG.  Although one surprise was that Wonder Woman UHD download from Sky Q actually looked quite good, which did make me wonder whether any of Sky's content is already encoded for HLG. Given that HLG is "backward-compatible" for normal SDR TVs, it's a possiblity that Sky already have some material with HLG gamma levels.

 

To override the EDID I used the standard HDFury Integral GUI. You can simply use the AUTOMIX function and enable HDR/HLG, and that works. However the approach I used was to capture the TVs EDID using HDFury, and then edit that in EEditGold software to add the HLG flag to the CEA extension. Export from EEditGold and load into the HDFury EDID table.


So you used to EEditGold to generate the Infoframe which you then loaded into the HDFury GUI?


But what has this got to with sky hlg on ks Samsung TVs ? Which is what this thread is about. 


tarbat found a way to get Sky HLG to work on the KS TVs using the HDFury.

 

Try to keep up.


Why are you so agrevivsive?  I was just asking a question . And do you have sky q in Canada? 

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