iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

[ewanstancarr]

So, of the nigh on 400 TVs supported in BBC iplayer for the Blue Planet II  HLG episodes none are from Samsung. Oh joy. 

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Moderator edit: Original thread title was "Blue Planet 2 HLG - No Samsung". With the OP's permission, the title was changed on 12/03/2018 to accurately reflect the dominant theme of the thread as it has progressed. If the reader would like to know more about the HLG format, please check out the BBC's page and FAQ's on it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/high-dynamic-range Thank you, AntS.

[TastyBurger666]

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@chopples123wrote:

codecs which the TV can handle is largly irelevent  when using an external device. Decoding is done on the device not TV. Likewise on an external device any handling of the HTML5 stream and DRM from a dvb-dash app such as iplayer would be handled externally. The TV in this instance just needs to be able to display the signal in the approriate resolution and colourspace. That screenshot  indicates The KS set is capable which is good news.

Direct TV/Sky Italia appears to suggest the EDID  has not been updated to tell these external devices it cannot handle the signal. It has been suggested (unlike Iplayer) a fix is being worked one, this will probably be a deal breaker for most as failure to fix this will essentially render HLG worthless for KS customers.

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Incorrect for Windows 10 devices, the current advice is actually to disable HDR in Windows, and allow the TV to do the switching / decoding.

I pump a bit of content through MaxVR and let the TV do all the work, and it's fine.

[chopples123]

Yes that is beauty of HLG is it can be mapped real time and metadata included in the same stream as the SDR broadcast.

The box will send what it believes the TV is capable of displaying, for whatever reason (EDID) the Sky box thinks the TV cant handle the signal. In short i dont know why the Blu Ray will pass HLG over HDMI.

In the past it has been possible to override EDID and force a signal regardless, Maybe that is the case here? who knows pure guesswork on my part. What is clear though is that Bluray player is outputting a HLG signal and the TV is recognising the signal and displaying appropriatly and it is being done over HDMI.

I never said the TV wasnt capable of decoding, what I was trying to say that there will be external devices not only capable of decoding but potentially dealing with the other issues which prevent a working iplayer app on the KS sets. If they can fix this seperate EDID issue then it will be a preferred option rather than attempting to exchange and either getting an overall worse TV or having to shell out extra.

A bit of an anecdote but those of us with Pioneer plasmas around the launch of the original SKYHD, will remember it not working at all due to handshake issues. This was fixed via a firmware update.

Dont give up hope, just yet...

[chopples123]

@tasyburger sorry do not how to qoute. Are you suggesting HEVC content on a 5 year old PC is playing back fine on a 4k TV because the set is Hardware decoding it?? best bin my 1080gtx then, obviously not needed.

[TastyBurger666]

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@chopples123wrote:

Yes that is beauty of HLG is it can be mapped real time and metadata included in the same stream as the SDR broadcast.

The box will send what it believes the TV is capable of displaying, for whatever reason (EDID) the Sky box thinks the TV cant handle the signal. In short i dont know why the Blu Ray will pass HLG over HDMI.

In the past it has been possible to override EDID and force a signal regardless, Maybe that is the case here? who knows pure guesswork on my part. What is clear though is that Bluray player is outputting a HLG signal and the TV is recognising the signal and displaying appropriatly and it is being done over HDMI.

I never said the TV wasnt capable of decoding, what I was trying to say that there will be external devices not only capable of decoding but potentially dealing with the other issues which prevent a working iplayer app on the KS sets. If they can fix this seperate EDID issue then it will be a preferred option rather than attempting to exchange and either getting an overall worse TV or having to shell out extra.

A bit of an anecdote but those of us with Pioneer plasmas around the launch of the original SKYHD, will remember it not working at all due to handshake issues. This was fixed via a firmware update.

Dont give up hope, just yet...

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Think we're getting confused here - the initial issue with boxes was with DirectTV boxes not playing nicely with Samsung's and LG TV's. Here the issue is the EDID on the TV itself reporting it's not HLG capable, which Samsung have acknowledged as a fault.

It's presumably the same issue being felt by Sky Italia beta testers (for that's what they are).

I'd agree with you on everything-else though.

[TastyBurger666]

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@chopples123wrote:

@tasyburger sorry do not how to qoute. Are you suggesting HEVC content on a 5 year old PC is playing back fine on a 4k TV because the set is Hardware decoding it?? best bin my 1080gtx then, obviously not needed.

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Ha, my 'current' PC is actually slighly older, but using a 1050 as this has hardware HEVC decoding on-board (it's the lowest Nvidia board to have it on, actually).

But yes, using a combination of MPC-BE and MadVR, I'm able to play HEVC with HDR absolutely fine (with the TV decoding the HDR and not the other way around).

Confusion reigns!

[chopples123]

and that explains it mate, the 1050 is capable of hardware decoding hevc. That was kind of why i said 5 year old PC initially, The first GPU capable was the 960 released  in 2015

glad we cleared that up

[TastyBurger666]

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@chopples123wrote:

and that explains it mate, the 1050 is capable of hardware decoding hevc. That was kind of why i said 5 year old PC initially, The first GPU capable was the 960 released  in 2015

glad we cleared that up

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Yeah, I was actually referring to the HDR portion - it's good practice to disable HDR in Windows 10 and allow the TV or device (or game) to do the switching and decoding.

[hdmi]

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@paul1111wrote:

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@chopples123wrote:
External devices will send what they can send, if its HLG then it will send HLG likewise with HDR10. For example That LG clip played through say a 5 year old windows PC plugged into a compatible 4k TV will be a mess regardless of the TV's capabilities, It will be attempting to software decode,stuttering and unable to send the appropriate colour space, that same clip played on a compliant external device (the example here is youtube) will work fine. The important thing is the display can handle the appropriate resolution/colourspace and frame rate, the heavy lifting is done by the decoding device.

There is some confusion within this thread that the issues are linked between the Iplayer and HLG over HDMI. My view is they are not, HLG is fully backwards compatible with SDR and there are many sets which have the iplayer app and could handle the HLG stream but could not display HLG (essentially just 4k) the low range 2016 LG's are an example of this. The KS series do not function full stop, which leads me to think the issues are with the method for the delivery of content rather than the ability to decode and display it.

Once more external compliant devices hit the market the handling of delivery and decoding of this content will be offloaded to them meaning the TV just has to be able to display the signal. This is why its more important in my view for Samsung to fix whatever issues they appear to be having with the EDID. If they can resolve this then it will at least give KS owners options which could ultimately include via iplayer (via an external device)

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Again thank you for that and I think that as hlg is backwards compatible unlike hdr10 it can be sent from any source to any TV but if the TV is not compatible it will just show a sdr picture. Now this is where I am getting confused is can the ks receive and play a HDR picture from a hlg source over hdmi? Or is the hlg source being clipped to sdr? 

What is confusing me is I  see the article posted here and on avs forums that seem to be saying hlg can not be sent over hdmi to the ks to get a HDR picture. People are saying that hlg is the same as HDR which again is a bit confusing. 

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it is not the question if HLG can or cannot be sent over HDMI, rather it is a question of if the player STB will send it or not to the KS, one way to find out is connect HD fury and see what is sent by Oppo or samsung BD players

https://www.hdfury.com

Please note that Smausng has ASIC to decode HLG but the problem is exposing this capability to devices or software like  BCC iplayer/Sky Q (when they roll out HLG)/Direct TV/||CHromecast Ultra

[chopples123]

The way i word stuff often sounds better in my head. But yes when i say decode I mean the processing of the video and not specifically handling the HDR metadata (whatever that may be)

The reason I initially posted was to hopefully try and shift focus away from iplayer, we are all flogging a dead horse with that one, and try to focus on being able to access the same content over HDMI. Issues have now been raised with the EDID on Samsung sets but if this can be addressed then that gives options not just for SKY but for any future devices with the potential of having an Iplayer app. Not ideal but its surely better than disposing of the TV for an overall worse model, or having to stump up a large chunk of change to get something comparible

Its Funny you mention a HDfury as that was the device which popped into my head when I was talking about forcing a signal.

best of luck and hopefully this will all be resolved to your satisfaction

cheers

[Pete1234]

You may be right that we will not get satisfaction on HDR iPlayer for pre 2017 Samsung TVs but that is the subject of this thread, it's in the title.

In my opinion a general discussion of the different options available for delivering HDR on these sets should have it's own thread. 

Samsung will be more than happy if everyone stops asking for answers about the issue in question and gets sidetracked with the question of what extra devices people can purchase to work around the issue they don't want to resolve.