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Original topic:

HDMI /HDR Support on the UE507470UXXU

(Topic created on: 23-07-2020 12:23 AM)
Leyvin
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TV

So, deciding to "bite the bullet" to upgrade to a Native HDR10 Display ... I decided that the UE507470 (at least on paper) appeared to be an excellent entry-level HDR Display.

 

I'm no so fussed about having a Full 4000 NIT Display, and frankly £2000+ for a Display (that I'd use for Consoles and Windows PC) is a tad outside of what I'd be comfortable spending.

No point in breaking the bank for a new TV, right?

 

Now as a future note for Samsung., could you please list in the Connection Ports list, the actual supported Ports.

Just listing HDMI isn't useful... as until you've made the purchase, it's very difficult to find out if these are HDMI 1.4 / 2.0a / 2.0b / 2.1 / etc.

 

In fact while I have been looking at the 2020 QLED TVs (primarily the Q65T/Q60T as again they're withing what I'd consider a reasonable price range), they don't actually even list in their specifications how many HDMI Ports they have... and again that's a concern to me, as I need a bare minimum of 3 HDMI Ports. 

(PC / XBOX / SWITCH) 

 

It's a good thing I don't have Cable anymore, else I'd be forced to either manually swap, get a HDMI Switcher Box (which they always downgrade the signal to earlier HDMI Revisions; so no 4K UHD 60 Signal) or pass it through the Xbox One; guess it'd be a good thing it can actually do that unlike the PS4.

 

Still that's just a frustration., what I find much more annoying is that while the TV does support 4K60 HDR... and it works excellently in Disney+, Netflix, etc. Apps on the TV itself., as does it seem to have some "Special" Support for the Xbox One X; when it comes to my Window 10 PC (via an RX 5700 XT)... well this is where things run into trouble.

 

The Manual itself states that HDR10 (10bit RGB) should be available on One Connect Displays at 50Hz., sure, I can deal with 50Hz instead of 60Hz. I'm aware this is a limitation of HDMI 2.0b (why HDMI 2.1 isn't on a 4K60 HDR Display remains a head scratcher to me) but then reading closer there's a little asterisk stating "Only via HDMI Port 4"

 

Ah... well that's a problem, I only have 3 HDMI Ports (and looking at the other models most have either 2 or 3 HDMI)

In fact the only Model I could seem to find with 4 HDMI Ports was the Q90R (which is a joke of a price., but it frankly has far better HDR10 anyway).

 

What irks me about this is., as noted... there is ZERO issues with the TV itself handling a 2160p60 HDR10 / HLG Signal., as the Apps can do it just fine. It's just via the HDMI Ports., and as seems to have become a common Samsung Practise it's only via a SPECIFIC HDMI Port; meaning the issue isn't even that the HDMI Controller doesn't support this, but rather such support is disabled via Software (likely to encourage purchase of more expensive models).

 

Yet this actually goes a bit further., as I've noticed on the Xbox One X... well it's capable of HDR800 (technically 950, so almost HDR1000)., where-as Windows this is dramatically reduced to HDR600. 

Now when you also couple this with the fact that Windows 10 HDR Support isn't exactly "Good", it requires some very specific feature support where-as on Xbox One and PlayStation 4... it's actually pretty well supported.

 

Still, if I want to have 10/12bit BPC at ANY Resolution above 1080p60., this means switching from RGB/YUV 4:4:4 (Full Gamut) to YUV 4:2:2 / 4:2:0 ... which for those less well versed, what these do is Compress the Luminance Component (Horizontally / Horizontally + Vertically) in the Display Signal; the result is Colour Banding, making any very Light or Dark areas essentially look like they're in 256 Colour Mode (if anyone is old enough to remember that) 

While you still effectively have a full SDR Range in the Middle. 

 

Now it's entirely possible that this is Disabled because the CPU Included might not be powerful enough to handle Image Processing at 2160p60 10bit. But if that's the case., can't you just enable it and disable all TV Related Image Processing?

In fact I'd LOVE to be able to DISABLE Image Scaling because my GPU Handles that in it's Hardware Display Engine. 

Colour Manipulation... again this is part of my GPU Hardware.

 

And you'll find most people who have either an AMD or NVIDIA GPU capable of suppoting 2160p60 HDR., yeah everything the TV is doing beyond just displaying the image; is / can be done via the GPU Hardware (and MUCH Better., I mean I'm sorry, but they're dedicated to such; rather than repurposed ARM SoC) 

 

Now I had heard rumours that sometime this year we're supposed to be getting a Firmware Update that relaxes some of these limitations (esp. as all of the 2020 TVs have HDMI 2.1., although knowing Samsung it'll only be the High-End Models that cost 2-5x my PC; frankly that's not good value... and sure I could've gone with a Monitor Display, but again for the same price you're looking at 32" instead of 50"; and they don't typically have Speakers or support for Consoles)

 

Still, it's just weird to support something 4K60 HDR10 but then not actually have any connectors capable of supporting such. YUV 4:2:2/4:2:0 is honestly useless for HDR10 because it washes out the Colours and causes Banding so the overal Image looks WORSE than just using SDR. 

 

And as I said., while I understand there is a Bandwidth Limitation., what's weirder is I can't even switch to 1800p50/1440p60 which would fit within the available bandwidth even with the current connection; the reason it doesn't at present is that the TV itself says "No" when the Graphics Card tries., because it reports "Unsupported" in it's VESA List. 

 

I've tried using a Custom Resolution, but all that accomplishes is automatic switching between 30Hz / 60Hz (RGB) when I switch between HDR On and HDR Off. 

Sure, I get the full Colour Gamut and it does look good Frame-by-Frame... but 30Hz isn't great for Gaming due to input latency... I have a feeling that "Game Mode" does improve things here, as I think it uses a different VESA Table; but as Samsung basically no longer produces Display Drivers anymore for Windows (instead relying on the Microsoft Plug-and-Play Driver); this means support for things like Automatic Game Mode just doesn't exist. 

 

Just seems to me like this NEEDS to be addressed via a Software Update (and perhaps some Drivers., as Samsung Display Drivers were REALLY good in the past; with some excellent default Colour Tables tuned for the Display and support for the build-in Features, such-as "Game Mode" that switched to a Low Latency for Gaming Purposes) 

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