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2020 QLED T models (Q80T, Q90T, Q800T, Q900T) HDR game mode brightness / local dimming bug

(Topic created on: 29-07-2020 10:40 AM)
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Rauttis
Explorer
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I bought a Q80T a couple of days ago and have noticed a really annoying issue when using the tv with the combination of HDR and game mode.

 

I'm fairly certain this is a software bug in the TV since I can reproduce this issue with 100% accuracy, and it happens on the dot at the same moment every time. It's basically on a timer.

 

Basically when the game is displaying a HDR signal and game mode is enabled, exactly after 6 minutes the brightness of the TV suddenly drops by around 20 (50 -> 30). The value of brightness setting doesn't actually change however. Messing with the brightness setting does not restore the brightness to it's original state, but changing the local dimming setting from standard to low and then back to standard does. Switching game mode off and then back on also fixes the issue, but then it happens again EXACTLY after 6 minutes (I've timed this with a stopwatch).

 

Has anyone else experienced this issue? Or can someone maybe test this on their TV to see if you can reproduce it?

 

Exact repro steps on how I can reproduce this 100% of the time on the PS4 Pro:

  1. Set brightness to max (50)
  2. Set local dimming to standard (bug happens on high as well)
  3. Enable game mode
  4. Turn off game motion plus
  5. Turn off intelligent mode and all the brightness related settings in eco settings, as these can influence the brightness level of the tv.
  6. Launch a game that runs in HDR
  7. Start your stopwatch
  8. Do whatever you want in the game or you can also go back to PS4 menus, find a bright scene where you can notice a brightness drop easily
  9. When the stopwatch hits 6 minutes, you should see the TVs brightness suddenly drop by a large amount. By eye the brightness drop seems about equal to dropping the brightness from 50 -> 30 by hand.
  10. Go to picture settings and set local dimming to low (brightness does not change)
  11. Set local dimming back to standard (brightness suddenly jumps to the original level. Brightness can be restored by switching input away and back as well, or by disabling and re-enabling game mode)
  12. And again after EXACTLY 6 minutes the bug again repeats and the brightness drops down again

Some other notes: The PS4 has a screensaver that basically dims the screen if it is idle for a while. This is not the cause of this, this happens even when the console is in active use and the brightness can be restored temporarily by changing the local dimming setting like described above. I have not managed to reproduce this issue with game mode off, so it seems to be related to game mode.

 

Software version: 1304

2,028 REPLIES 2,028
corvuss
Journeyman
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ok,so the question is:the tv CAN do game mode+full brightness during certain amount of time...whats the reason behind fixing this bug by the cost of brightness? i mean,the tv can do it,we only need that it stays there 😞

 

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LCDeez
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Agreed, please update the OP title so it can be clear for every model owner. 

Regarding overheating, I just don’t see this as the reason for the dimming bug. I’ve mentioned before, it happens in completely different panels  (there’s no way a Q80T and a Q900T have the exact same mechanical features to deal with heat). Also, it happens on a timer for games like FIFA. This leads me to believe it’s a unique software issue. If it was overheating, it wouldn’t happen at the same exact time for a specific game.

 

Again, if you want this concern to be raised to higher support levels. Post it on Twitter every day with links to this forum.

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Alekkk
Explorer
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There's some talk in this thread about this being an overheating problem or Samsung artificially boosting the TV's capabilities. This seems to me like an algorithmic problem or software fault, not a mechanical problem or hardware fault.

 

The TV is using global dimming to artificially boost contrast, yes, but this makes sense and works well when the screen is totally black or near black. The problem is that global dimming is configured differently for Movie mode versus other modes. The dimming works reasonably well in Movie mode because it has a fairly high threshold for how dark the screen has to be in order to dim. It's totally broken in Game mode because the threshold is far too low. This threshold should be user configurable. That we are given easy access to white balance, which the average user should not touch, and not global dimming threshold seems very silly to me.

 

Now, the six minute thing could be a different issue. That could be a programmed delay for any dimming so as to warm up the display. (LCDs don't need to warm up like plasmas did, but will be sluggish until warmed up; calibrators generally leave LCDs running for 30–60 mins before calibrating, warming the liquid-crystal using the backlight, but most of the warming happens in the first ten mins.) After this delay, dimming becomes active and for Game mode, the low threshold means it's dimming all the ***** time. It could be that you can reset the algorithm (and restart that delay) by changing local dimming mode or some other settings, which is how you can temporarily stop it from dimming again.

 

If I'm right about how this is working, then the problem is the threshold. Global dimming should be user configurable, just like local dimming. Samsung ought to give us high, standard and low threshold configurations for dimming. If they won't do that, then at least set the threshold for all inputs to Movie mode levels, which seems unobtrusive.

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KindOldRaven
Pioneer
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This is actually not true. Game Mode without GMP but with VRR = 960hz. With GMP = 120hz + other odd values when you start adjusting the sliders. This was a theory of mine and it has been confirmed by Adam from Rtings. At least this happens on the Q90T so assume it's the same with the Q80T as well 😛 

Tv52
Pioneer
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Same issue here. Any update from Samsung? Did you try to claim warranty and have money returned?

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Suriya
Voyager
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Yes request return from Amazon waiting for the pick-up and refund. Three of us bought from Amazon in my friend's circle all returned and going to buy LG 65C9/CX. Never expect this from samsung atleast no reply from samsung team here. only below tier 1 amateur teams only dealing with us via chat and calls without understanding what we're saying and arguing there is no issues like that so and so.

Atleast they should have mentioned something like exactly this month we'll roll out updates for fixing it or any other updates from samsung side. We're not fools

Tv52
Pioneer
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Good to hear that you've been refunded. It sound like to did standard return with Amazon policy. I don't have this luxury as my shop doesn't accept return so I will have to go through warranty first. 

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LCDeez
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Would Samsung even consider dealing with this as part of the year warranty? I don’t think warranties cover software bugs do they? 

Tv52
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Probably Samsung thinks that after they got all the positive reviews and Q80T was acclaimed in some cases as best TV for gaming then they don't have to do anything more beside counting money.

LCDeez
Navigator
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Put in a warranty claim for the bug. Also, post a screen shot or copy/paste the conversation to keep a log of how they respond to it.