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observations on water temperature inside wash drum WW90T534DAN and why quick washes could give bad results

(Topic created on: 16-02-2023 10:58 PM)
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andy_in_ireland
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some observations on a wash load I done today on our Samsung WW90T534DAN with a digital temperature meter.

Cycle time was 1hr 30minutes ( 40'c wash / 3 rinses / 1000rpm spin 'intense' option selected) 
wash was 40'c 'mixed' cycle.  - Max temperature of water in drum got to 38'c which was good. 
But.... it only reached 38'c after half an hour (it took all that time to heat up incoming cold water of around 9'c to 38'c ) then washed in 38'c for only about 5minutes if that until drum emptied to do its 1st rinse . 

so be under no illusions with 'Quick Washes' on this machine (and of course with other manufacturers machines that all work in the same way (take cold water in from the back of the machine - cold fill only)  and then heat up the water to wash temperature by means of electric element at the bottom of the drum in that 1hr 30minutes of a cycle only nearly 5minutes (if that) did your washing wash in 40'c (or near it) water temperature. - it too over half an hour to heat the water from 9'c (incoming cold fill from the water mains) to 38'c . 

The machine actually has a 15minute 'quick wash' feature and the temp can be set up to a maximum 40'c so if you do the maths and physics and it takes over half an hour to reach 38'c then how would the washing machine in 15minutes heat up the water to 40'c .. then rinse..... then spin? - all in that 15minutes. 

So if you are finding that (and i know the new modern powders and liquids boast these days to work in low temperatures) your clothes are still coming out dirty / stained / smelly after even a 1 and a half hour cycle you might understand that all your clothes washed in the  water temperature you selected on the front panel it more than likely only just spent 5 minutes out of the hour and a half washing at that temperature! 

Now you know possibly why when you do a non quick wash it can take around 3hrs or more to do a proper cottons wash say. 

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EcoBubbleUser944
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https://news.samsung.com/uk/samsung-takes-sustainable-living-to-the-next-level-at-ces-2023

So funnily enough, Samsung says its become available to all connected machines since early January. Not sure this is a good show from the company to be honest!
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andy_in_ireland
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@EcoBubbleUser944 wrote:
I have the WW11BB944DGES1 - basically the sucessor to the WW90T986DS* models I believe. To my amazement, I washed curtains on the Auto Optimal Wash programme today and it did accurately detect the fabric type. I remember reading a post on Samsung Newsroom that an update would be rolled out to all connected washing machines in January 2023 that would include a 'Less Microfibre' cycle. Strange how it still hasn't been sent to the 2020 machines. I really wish Samsung would let users disable features like you said.

Just updated smart things app on my android mobile from play store. cannot see anything different for my Series 5 2020 washer - no new 'less microfiber' cycle or any other new cycles . Cannot see anything new in the new update . Wonder if the new updates / new cycles for the washing machine go direct to the machine , or do they download first to the samsung smart things app and then you send the new cycle/program it to the machine?

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EcoBubbleUser944
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It will show up on SmartThings first and then you can choose whether or not you want to update the machine. If you choose to update it, the washing machine will download and install the update provided it isn't interrupted (switched off) and the WiFi signal isn't lost. It should take around 20-30 minutes for it to get installed (that is if an update gets rolled out... hopefully soon).
andy_in_ireland
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@EcoBubbleUser944 wrote:
It will show up on SmartThings first and then you can choose whether or not you want to update the machine. If you choose to update it, the washing machine will download and install the update provided it isn't interrupted (switched off) and the WiFi signal isn't lost. It should take around 20-30 minutes for it to get installed (that is if an update gets rolled out... hopefully soon).

Ah right thank you for that info. I cannot see my model getting it, mine is only the cheaper model WW90T534DAW at around 500euro . yours is the top high end model at around a thousand or so isnt it with a lot more features . - Be nice if it does, even to confirm that they are still updating the older cheaper entry level models as well as the premium ones. 

EcoBubbleUser944
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Not a problem. I can't imagine the Series 5+ machines not getting a software update soon. The demand for them is massive and has been since it was released. Very few machines have WiFi, auto dosing, A energy rating and a 72db noise level when spinning at that price range. It would be a missed opportunity if they don't get updated at all since they have all been built to last.
EcoBubbleUser944
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A bit of research has revealed the truth!
It turns out that the pressure sensor on your machine is identical to mine (based on the part number and pictures).
Basically, your machine can also detect the fabric type (the idea of it is that the machine adds water to the drum to a preset level and monitors the changes after a few tumbles to detect the absorbancy) but Samsung won't allow it to. The world of software limitations is starting to annoy me. Screenshot_20230415_231922_Samsung Internet.jpgScreenshot_20230415_231926_Samsung Internet.jpg
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andy_in_ireland
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@EcoBubbleUser944 wrote:
A bit of research has revealed the truth!
It turns out that the pressure sensor on your machine is identical to mine (based on the part number and pictures).
Basically, your machine can also detect the fabric type (the idea of it is that the machine adds water to the drum to a preset level and monitors the changes after a few tumbles to detect the absorbancy) but Samsung won't allow it to. The world of software limitations is starting to annoy me. Screenshot_20230415_231922_Samsung Internet.jpgScreenshot_20230415_231926_Samsung Internet.jpg

even my previous Hotpoint 2012 model 'monitored' the water level in the drum 'throughout the whole wash' - so I would have thought this samsung would do the same even my cheaper one than yours.
Your one has got an extra sensor being a dearer model I should imagine? yours therefore should have the 'Turbidity Sensor' for detecting the laundry where that sensor is missing on my cheaper version of your particular machine. 

as far as I can see the water level sensor does what any other level sensor does on other machines (even ones that do not 'weigh' the clothes in the drum before the wash) that all it does is measure the level of the water in the drum , and at the end of the cycle makes sure all the water is pumped out of the drum before advancing to spin . 

I have a feeling that the 30 second tumbling (weighing when dry) before a wash (especially on my cheaper model) is more like to adjust the time of the wash , say if you have not got a full drum to adjust the wash time to be on the shorter side

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EcoBubbleUser944
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The idea of fabric detection on my model is that if the load weighs less than 3kg, it will add a certain amount of water and then tumble for around a minute to detect the changes to the water level. If there is a large decrease in the water level, then the machine will wash as normal for things such as towels but if there is a small decrease then the machine will display 'Laundry will be washed extra gently due to AI analysis' and will wash the laundry gently - a bit too gentle in my opinion but still offers good performance. All machines have the same pressure switch and make the machine do top ups if needed. I couldn't find the turbidity sensor on the spare part website but the machine does have it and it is possible to see it working by selecting the AI Wash programme and waiting until after the fabric detection phase. A bright blue laser is emitted from the sensor in the outer drum - so bright that it is easy to spot from the small holes in the drum when empty. Good sensor to have but it can be tricked into thinking you're washing a heavily soiled load if you use scent boosters. The thing I like about Samsung machines with turbidity sensors is that they are designed to work without the sensor as well if it does go faulty. If the turbidity sensor on a Bosch/Siemens group machine fails, the sensor must be replaced before the washing machine can be used again.
EcoBubbleUser944
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Forgot to add that the machine does sense the load in the first few seconds of the cycle as you correctly insisted but if the machine senses a light load, it will use less water for the rinses than for a half or full load. It's a bit confusing to be honest.
andy_in_ireland
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ah right that about the rinse might explain sometimes when  I select 3 rinses it sometimes changes it to 2 rinses automatically on some cycles. Thought I was going around the bend I thought "I am sure I selected 3 rinses not 2" - shame they wont give you the option of turning AI off .... I mean thank you Samsung for trying to be helpful but if I want to select 3 rinses then I want 3 rinses ... I dont want to be undermined and over-ruled as helpful as you are trying to be! - I am not even on a water meter at the moment yet so i know you are trying to maybe save me money by cutting down on water charges but its not applicable to me at the moment so thanks , but no thanks - even more on mine because I have not got the twin water spray nozell on my model that is on the higher model's that thoroughly rinses the clothes so thats why sometimes I want to select 3 rinses on the cycle (that would be 2 rinses with clean water and 1 rinse with fabric softener added)