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Original topic:

HW-MS650 with two R3 speakers as rear surround

(Topic created on: 17-08-2018 08:34 PM)
Peejay84
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Hello!

 

I have been using MS650 soundbar with two R3 speakers for a full 5.0 surround configuration with UE65KS8000 tv.

Everything was fine until it updated to the 1129.1 firmware yesterday. 

Now the volume on rear speakers is too low even with -6 on a soundbar and +6 on R3's set in the Multiroom app. 

 

It's the same problem as previously addressed with HW-K650 soundbar with R speakers as rear surround (there is a huge thread about the issue here). 

From what i see the volume on R3's doesn't scale linearly with the soundbar. Up to 45-50/100 volume R3's are a lot quieter than the soundbar and around 55/100 they match the output volume of the soundbar (tested with multiple surround test files) and then they suddenly become exponentially louder than the soundbar with evey step making a huge difference. 

Problem is that 50+ volume is really loud, and it's impossible to watch most movies at those volumes. 

 

It was like that pre update too but the "matching point" was at lower volume levels and you could just manually adjust R3's vs soundbar volume via Multiroom app and get a good surround sound field at lower volume. 

 

Another thing about the 1129.1 firmware update. I have been told by a Samsung salesman that MS650 is getting a full DTS 5.1 support this year. I guess that was the point of the update (can't be sure since you are not giving us any changelogs sadly), because the system can now play DTS 5.1 with all channels being properly separated, but only via HDMI ARC connection. With Soundbar being connected through WiFi to KS8000 im only getting fake DTS surround.

Is that a technical limitation or simply a bug? Dolby 5.1 plays correctly via both WiFi and HDMI, but again the rears are very quiet. 

 

Can any of you dear moderators pass this to the team that was working on a fix for K650+R speakers problem?

 

Thanks in advance! :smiling-face:

26 REPLIES 26
knocker
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Hi I have just bought an Mu6400 smart tv

ms650 soundbar and 2 Radiant 360 R1 speakers.

3.1 surround with juat R1's is ok but  for 5.1 linking the ms650 and the 2 R1's the sound on the 2 R1's is so low is barely noticable unless you crank up really loud, whixh becomes unbareable. I am using optical as unable to set 5.1 over WIFI.

 

any advice


@Peejay84 wrote:

Hello there!

 

It does work with radiant speakers and gives real multichannel experience with both Dolby and DTS formats.

Latest firmware for both radiants and soundbar fixed a sound level issue a little i think, but the volume on R3's still doesn't scale linearly with the soundbar. With +6 on radiants in multiroom app, the volume levels are equal at around 50/100. It's fine for most netfilx/amazon stuff, but for DTS content its usually too lound and i have to put soundbar lower in multiroom app. 

Other than that it works great with WiFi connection. DTS 5.1 only works via HDMI, WiFi gives fake surround. That might be just bandwith limitation of Samsung's WiFi implementation. Not sure if it's the same with SWA-9000.

 

From what i see SWA-9000 speakers are a lot more user friendly, you can adjust their voulume or even turn them off with your remote. With radiants you have to do it via multiroom app. It's not really a problem for me, since i have an always on tablet standing on a shelf nearby. 

 

You said in the other thread that you are using optical. From what i remember i got really low volume on R speakers when i connected it once via optical. But if you have 2017 tv, you should really use WiFi as it gives perfect lipsync. Sometimes i get lipsync issues with HDMI that can't be adjusted (picture goes before sound). Nothing terrible but visible to sensitive people..

 

I've never tried using SWA-9000 so i can't really be sure how they perform, or if there are any issues with them. But if everything is ok with them i say you go with SWA-9000 if you want to use whole set only for tv, but go with Radiant speakers if you want to group them with soundbar and listen to music like i do. 


 

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Peejay84
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Hello!

Try using HDMI ARC connection. I think i've tried Optical once and rears were idd very low. 

 

You can use this file to test https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/ChID-BLITS-EBU.mp4 .. Just play it from a pendrive via your TV. As i said earlier the volume doesn't scale linearly and my R'3 when put on +6 in multiroom app play about as loud as soundbar channels at volume of 50/100. If you put soundbar to -6 in multiroom app, they should be equal at around 30-35/100.

 

Also remember to set "Dolby"  and Bitstream in your sound options in the tv. For somee reason samsung tv's won't change it automatically, so when you are playing DTS track, you also have to change to DTS in the sound settings. 

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Torque
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Hi,

 

I know this is an old thread but being searching regarding DTS 5.1 on the MS650.


My setup is....

Samsung F8000 Hdmi-arc to MS650 with 9000s rear speakers. Firmware 1146.4 / 196R.


I watch Netflix and Now TV movies.


Yet all I can select is PCM. Any advice is much appreciated?

 

Thanks.

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darrenliu
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If you have already ensured firmware for both TV and Soundbar updated, the issue will be the source from your Netflix or Now TV. Audio of the source must be stereo.
Also did you switch your Sound output at TV menu to soundbar?
Peejay84
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Hello!

 

Netflix and the rest of streaming services use Dolby. If your soundbar is connected to your TV through ARC, you need to set HDMI audio format to Bitstream and Audio Format to Dolby Digital in your sound settings. You have to do this WHILE THE MOVIE/SHOW is playing not in the Netflix menu, so the TV recives Dolby signal. 11.jpg

 

 

Bear in mind that every time you watch something with DTS track from your Bluray or NAS, you have to manually change to DTS in audio format (also DTS 5.1 only works through HDMI connection, it doesn't work with WiFi), and when you get back to Netflix you have to switch to Dolby etc.

 

F8000 is the older tv running Smarthub right? I have KS8000 with Tizen so your menu might be different and ARC connection might work different on it. For example all the new samsung TV's (QLEDs) can't output DTS through HDMI ARC and Optical, so you can only play Dolby (it has to be some kind of licensing issue). 

 

Oh and sometimes Primevideo (amazon VOD service) bugs out for me, and in TV settings i see PCM, like you said (and im unable to change it), with sound being messed up. Restarting the movie usually solves the problem. 

Never happend to me with Netflix though. 

Torque
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Hi, 

Thank you for the reply. 

Firmware:
F8000 TV firmware 1135 most upto date. 
MS650 firmware 1146.4 / 196R most upto date.

F8000 TV menu:
- > sound  - > Speaker settings  - > Speaker select = receiver

- > Sound  - > Additional Settings  - > Digital Audio Out  = PCM all over options greyed.

5.0 surround: should it be only dialogue from centre, whilst the front /rear left/right provide effects?

Thanks.
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Torque
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Hiya,

Thank you for responding.

Not sure how I change the Hdmi-arc port to bitstream. I don't think it is an option on the F8000.

Yes the F8000 (2013) has smart hub. The last update stripped away the smart hub home page for a banner which holds apps which you pin to it (ie the main apps). I think Tizen is similar.

Haha, I am glad you said whilst movie is showing. I am streaming Netflix and under...
TV settings - > Sound  - > Additional Settings  - > Digital Audio Out  = Dolby Digital can now be selected. Thanks 😀

Should the rear speakers be outputting dialogue? When I put my ears to the soundbar I can only hear dialogue from centre, and effects from the left/right.

Thanks.

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Torque
Journeyman
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Hi,

Also viewing tv...

Channel - BBC1 HD:
TV settings - > Sound  - > Additional Settings  - > Digital Audio Out  = Dolby Digital can now be selected.

TV settings - > Sound  - > Additional Settings  - > Dolby Digital Comp = 'RF' the other option is 'Line', which should it be?

TV settings - > Broadcasting - > Audio Options - > Audio Format  = HE-ACC 5.1 there are no other options.

Channel - Dave:
TV settings - > Sound  - > Additional Settings  - > Digital Audio Out  = PCM is the only available option.

TV settings - > Broadcasting - > Audio Options - > Audio Format  = MPEG there are no other options.

I assume this is down to the source?

Thanks.
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Peejay84
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Glad i could help :smiling-face:

 

>Should the rear speakers be outputting dialogue? When I put my ears to the soundbar I can only hear dialogue from centre, and effects from the left/right.

 

Usually with surround mixes conversations of characters talking on screen will be played only from the center channel (sometimes a little left/right too), rear speakers are usually playing ambient sounds, music etc. or sounds that are positioned "behind the screen". 

Sometimes you can hear voice from rears, for example when some powerful "psychic" character uses his alien voice :winking-face: 

It all really depends on a movie/tv show. Some tv shows like The walking dead barely use rear channels, and some use them a lot. 

 

This is a basic dolby channel test check:

https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/ChID-BLITS-EBU.mp4

 

I used it to adjust the volume on SWA9000 rears, because all the spoken commands are at the same sound level. 

 

You can download it and play it from a pendrive on your tv. It's the easiest way to check if channels are properly separated.

 

Theres also a sound check on Netflix. 

 

https://www.netflix.com/title/80018499

 

Peejay84
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Yeah it's down to the source. Like i said, when you play DTS file, you have to manually switch to DTS there, or you get a fake surround. Not sure if F8000 can play DTS through ARC though.

MS650 with SWA9000 does indeed play real 5.1 DTS even though it says 2.0 on the box. It recieved an update some time ago. If you plug it directly to a bluray, and pass the video to your TV it will play DTS5.1 properly

 

Not sure what Dolby DIgital Comp is on F8000, but quick googling says its a method of compression used (so looks like it's always bitstream). I think you should leave it as it is. 

 

When you see TV settings - > Broadcasting - > Audio Options - > Audio Format  = MPEG, it means it's not broadcasted in Dolby :smiling-face:

Sometimes there are multiple tracks though, even in live tv. I see some stations here having mpeg as default, but theres a hidden Dolby track too, but you have to switch to it manually.