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HW-MS650 with two R3 speakers as rear surround

(Topic created on: 12-12-2017 05:51 PM)
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Peejay84
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Hello!

 

I have been using MS650 soundbar with two R3 speakers for a full 5.0 surround configuration with UE65KS8000 tv.

Everything was fine until it updated to the 1129.1 firmware yesterday. 

Now the volume on rear speakers is too low even with -6 on a soundbar and +6 on R3's set in the Multiroom app. 

 

It's the same problem as previously addressed with HW-K650 soundbar with R speakers as rear surround (there is a huge thread about the issue here). 

From what i see the volume on R3's doesn't scale linearly with the soundbar. Up to 45-50/100 volume R3's are a lot quieter than the soundbar and around 55/100 they match the output volume of the soundbar (tested with multiple surround test files) and then they suddenly become exponentially louder than the soundbar with evey step making a huge difference. 

Problem is that 50+ volume is really loud, and it's impossible to watch most movies at those volumes. 

 

It was like that pre update too but the "matching point" was at lower volume levels and you could just manually adjust R3's vs soundbar volume via Multiroom app and get a good surround sound field at lower volume. 

 

Another thing about the 1129.1 firmware update. I have been told by a Samsung salesman that MS650 is getting a full DTS 5.1 support this year. I guess that was the point of the update (can't be sure since you are not giving us any changelogs sadly), because the system can now play DTS 5.1 with all channels being properly separated, but only via HDMI ARC connection. With Soundbar being connected through WiFi to KS8000 im only getting fake DTS surround.

Is that a technical limitation or simply a bug? Dolby 5.1 plays correctly via both WiFi and HDMI, but again the rears are very quiet. 

 

Can any of you dear moderators pass this to the team that was working on a fix for K650+R speakers problem?

 

Thanks in advance! :smiling-face:

26 REPLIES 26
Newbeee
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Hi - did you get this to work in the end?

 

I have already purchased the ms6500 and am looking to purchase 2xR1 for a 5.0 experience. But dont want to buy these if they will not work as expected.

 

The other option i have is to purchase the swa-9000s. Not sure which route to go down.

Peejay84
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Hello there!

 

It does work with radiant speakers and gives real multichannel experience with both Dolby and DTS formats.

Latest firmware for both radiants and soundbar fixed a sound level issue a little i think, but the volume on R3's still doesn't scale linearly with the soundbar. With +6 on radiants in multiroom app, the volume levels are equal at around 50/100. It's fine for most netfilx/amazon stuff, but for DTS content its usually too lound and i have to put soundbar lower in multiroom app. 

Other than that it works great with WiFi connection. DTS 5.1 only works via HDMI, WiFi gives fake surround. That might be just bandwith limitation of Samsung's WiFi implementation. Not sure if it's the same with SWA-9000.

 

From what i see SWA-9000 speakers are a lot more user friendly, you can adjust their voulume or even turn them off with your remote. With radiants you have to do it via multiroom app. It's not really a problem for me, since i have an always on tablet standing on a shelf nearby. 

 

You said in the other thread that you are using optical. From what i remember i got really low volume on R speakers when i connected it once via optical. But if you have 2017 tv, you should really use WiFi as it gives perfect lipsync. Sometimes i get lipsync issues with HDMI that can't be adjusted (picture goes before sound). Nothing terrible but visible to sensitive people..

 

I've never tried using SWA-9000 so i can't really be sure how they perform, or if there are any issues with them. But if everything is ok with them i say you go with SWA-9000 if you want to use whole set only for tv, but go with Radiant speakers if you want to group them with soundbar and listen to music like i do. 

darrenliu
Journeyman
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I am now matching my MS650 with SWA-9000s (Surround Speakers). In terms of 9000s volume, I have to turn it to max +6, and it quite satisfies my hearing.

 

Before having Surround Speakers, I felt 2 channel output only from MS650 with DTS5.1 audio source. After I setup Surround speakers, I can hear actual 5.0 surround effect with DTS5.1 audio source. I don't understand this, but it doesn't matter to me.

 

Speak of Wifi can't give you actual DTS 5.0, maybe you need to check whether your TV support DTS5.1, or just DTS2.0. When I connected my HD player to TV via HDMI and TV to MS650+9000s via HDMI ARC, with DTS5.1 audio source, I can hear same sound from all speakers (front & rear) which I call them as fake surround, because dialogue speaking should not come out from rear speakers. This happens because my TV is DTS2.0 only.

 

When I connected my HD player (able to read DTS5.1) to TV via HDMI and HD player to MS650+9000s via optical cable, with DTS5.1 audio source, I can hear actual 5.0 surround sounds throughout my speakers, the sound effect is the same as Dolby Digital 5.1.

 

I think if your TV is DTS2.0 capability only, don't treat your TV as input to the soundbar.

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Peejay84
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Hello! 

 

My Ks8000 is DTS 5.1 capable according to specs, and I get real dts surround with HDMI Arc, it only outputs fake surround via WiFi,and only DTS. Wifi dolby works fine.

There's nothing about this in manual, and according to manual MS650 is still 2.0 DTS soundbar in EU. 

Funny enough, on Canadian Samsung website it is listed as DTS 5.1 capable.

 

Honestly samsung user support for audio/video is horrible. There are no change logs or bug fixes posted anywhere on the net. Every firmware update is a lottery, you have no idea what you are actually updating to.

There's nothing on the whole internet about MS650 getting DTS 5.1 support, other than some early reviews stating that it will get dts 5.1 update. 

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kirby2096
First Poster
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HW-MS650 DTS 5.1 Support

 

An update has been released for soundbar series M550, MS650, MS6500, and MS750 models. With this update, the soundbars will have the following new features.

  • Ability to playback both Dolby and DTS contents in a true 5.1Ch surround sound
  • Ability to decode more information to create a more detailed virtual multi-dimensional sound for DTS contents.

This is taken from the US Support website for the HW-MS650 (updated on 08/15/17),and the latest firmware on the Support page for this soundbar is the same across the US and EU sites. The fact that information on this feature was hidden away, and that firmware update notes for Samsung soundbars are non-existant does show that Samsung's website team are doing a pretty poor job of keeping their customers informed.

 

I've just tried on my setup and indeed DTS 5.1 does not work over Wifi. I'm fine with using HDMI connection from the TV to the soundbar, but hopefully can Samsung bring us an update to fix this for those who prefer a wireless connection. 

 

More important for me is that they add LPCM 5.1ch support to their soundbars, as I want to play compatible Nintendo Switch games in glorious surround sound when in docked mode.

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Peejay84
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Oh wow thanks!
I was looking for some information about DTS support but didn't find anything.
As for WiFi DTS, I really wish they would update it as samsung WiFi connection gives perfect lipsync, no matter the source. You don't have to adjust anything.
With HDMI Arc sometimes I get picture before sound, which is weird and you can't adjust it via Ks8000 sound settings as there are no negative values there.
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darrenliu
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Hi kirby2096,

Thanks for the info. I'm actually from Malaysia (Asia Region). Not sure if the update to DTS5.1 also applied to Asia Region? However, my MS650 really can play DTS5.1 with Optical cable.

 

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darrenliu
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Hi Kirby2096,

Any idea which firmware version contains DTS5.1 update?

 

 

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kirby2096
First Poster
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@darrenliu

Funnily enough DTS5.1 support was added in firmware ver. 1129.1, back when this very topic was created. Also confirmed at HW-MS650 topic on AVSforum Just to be clear, the firmware updates after ver. 1129.1 should have DTS5.1 support as well.

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