HW-K650 and Two R1 Wirelss Speakers in 5.1 With KS7000 TV

[podavies]

When using the K650 sound bar and two R1 Wireless speakers in surround sound mode over wifi with the latest firmware, The quailty of the sound K650 drops, sounds very muddy. As soon as you use the sound bar on it own, the sound bar improves. this is happening for a quite a few users.

can you help.

[frustrated]

I should also add i am using the tv tuner, tv netflix and tv google play movies rather than external sources.

[scott]

Maybe a factory reset on everything? For the tv you turn tv off and press mute,mute 182, power to access service menu. You have to have a universal remote to do this, not the little smart remote. Dont change anything, just click on factory reset. 

[simon_w]

My setup is no HDMI or optical - just WiFi to the soundbar and R1s but with a Samsung Hub

Netfix, Amazon Prime, YouTube via the TVs apps and Live TV (so oldschool!)

Cheap Smsung BluRay player (without the extra wifi ability)

4k BT TV  box over HDMI

What is worth noting is that both the picture and the sound settings on the TV are per source so if youre using bitstream and dolby digital you need to revisit the settings for each source and check what they are...

What I understand is that the HDMI Audio Format settings have no effect on a soundbar conneceted over WiFi

HDMI Audio Format | PCM sends uncompressed stereo (2.0) over HDMI (and also over the optical connection)

HDMI Audio Format | Bitsream sends compressed multichannel audio (either Dolby or DTS) over HDMI

Audio Format is the one that effects the Soundbar over WiFi

Audio Format | PCM sends uncompressed stereo (2.0) to the soundbar

Audio Format | Dolby Digital sends a compressed dolby formatted bitstream that can be 2.0 or 5.1 depending on the source.

On my TV the other two options of DTS and DTS Neo 2:5 are greyed out

To reiterate what I have said before - but with careful use of pseudo not faux 😉

If you are set on Audio Format | PCM the soundbar will create a pseudo surround presentation based on the stereo content.  This always seems to have plenty of bass in the centre channel.

If you are set on Audio Format | Dolby Digital and the source is stereo (2.0) you will get stereo on the soundbar with no reprocessing.  This always seems to have plenty of bass too.

If you are set on Audio Format | Dolby Digital and the source is surround (5.1) you will get discrete surround on the soundbar with no reprocessing.  This may show a lack of bass in the centre channel depending how the Dolby Digital bitstream is authored and how the soundbar interprets this.

It is unusual to only put dialogue in the centre channel - normally it is spread between L C R equally and will appear as if in the centre.  This is a legacy from when 4.0 was a common set up (no centre channel and no sub).  

In the authoring you have to specify what type of speaker the surround mix is intended for - small / medium / large - this changes the way the sub channel is used as often instead of being sent as a discrete channel it is entirely derived in the surround processor.  We dont know exactly how the K650 handles the sub channel but it would appear that it is predominantly derived from the front left and front right channels and not from the centre channel - this is apparent on the test file that Lee circulated a while back - lots of sub on L/R - none on C or surround L/R - but I'm still not convinced this is a real world problem as I have yet to hear actual programme that is weak in centre dialogue...

Comparing the PCM setting to the Dolby Digital setting is like comparing apples and pears - the overall volume will be different as will the surround presentation - and percived bass is very level dependent.

Similarly comparing the K650/R1s with another surround setup is tricky because we dont know how the two systems differ in the way the sub channel is derived.

What I will try and do over the weekend is author a short Dolby Digital test file myself which might help shed some light on this - one where I can control from the metadata how the sub behaves... I will circulate this for others to try out if I can get it to work !!

[Peejay84]

Rob, Simon thanks for checking this for me guys! I just want to know if every K650 behaves like this.

Like I said, the source of the signal does not matter, the center speakers don't get any support from the sub. It's completely silent in every test I've made.

For me it's very noticeable, especially with male voices and sound effects like gunshots that often play through the center channel in dolby. It really sounds bad. Like the active crossover is working and cuts the low frequencies from the center channel, but doesn't send it to the woofer. The difference in dialogues between my k650 and my ms650 is night and day.

[scott]

 I notice Samsung has the HW-K850 on sale @799 with a free UBD-K8500 bluray player included.

I wonder if that applies to open box stuff at Bestbuy? I notice Bestbuy has some open box HW-K850 soundbars for less than 500. All my stuff is open box from Bestbuy. The tv, soundbar, r1's, bluray player--everything. 

 The previous owner of the bluray player left all of his subscription apps like Netflix, Amazon, etc. signed in. I did a factory reset anyway.

 Bought the bluray version of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and the surround sound is incredible. The bluray has a choice of Dolby True HD or DTS HD MA. All my other blurays are either one or the other. The Great Wall has a lot of surround effects throughout the movie. Arrows whistling through the air different explosions, etc.

[leelazer]

Hi Peejay

I definitely.get sub woofer support for my centre channel as I have said before I think. Have you got a copy of any of the transformer films? If so see if you get sub support when playing sone optimus Prime dialogue. The opening sequence of dark side of the moon is best as on the intro his voice only comes from the centre channel.  

Lee

[Bryantay]

I'd like to thow my hat in here an say that I too am having the issue of no sub woofer support for my centre channel.

I've been holding out saying anything regarding the new firmware because I couldn't quite tell if it helped the sound issue at all for me.  I listen to movies and i still can't really hear any suround channels. 

Also, because the center channels is so thin (no sub support) I still end up swithing the the soundbar back to just TV (2-channel) because the sound is so much fuller.

So for now my system is still no good even with the recent update.  Sux...

[Peejay84]

Yeah lee, that's why i think it might be a hardware issue and that not everyone is affected. 

I think all Transformer movies are either on Netflix or Prime, gonna check it later, i have MS-650 plugged in right now. 

I did notice that in Dolby "offscreen" dialogues and narrations often spread on L/R/C channels, and they sound good because of that

For example in that new Brad Pitt Netflix movie, the narrator voice is coming from all 3 channels and it sounds good, but whenever onscreen characters talk it sounds horrible. 

Also you can eliminate the problem by setting MOVIE mode on a soundbar alone. It spreads the center channel across Left and Right, but you can't actually use MOVIE mode in surround setup. 

[Peejay84]

>I listen to movies and i still can't really hear any surround channels.

Some movies aren't using rears much. TV shows almost never use them for anything other than music, crickets or an occasional gunshot (and its usually the same sound as fronts but quieter).

If you have Netflix, watch a movie called Equalizer. It utilizes rear channels all the time, surround is really easy to notice there.
Same with the new Amazon show "American Gods". Rear speakers basically create wall of sound through entire episodes.

[Neilwales]

Simon
I am also using my set up via HDMI and to my untrained ear sounds good. Ok some channels/sources are better than others but overall decent. Question? What would be in your opinion the ultimate set up...fully wifi or hdmi?