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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

Helping Hand

Remember, what is on the disc, is 4:2:0. This is a lossy compressed signal with less information in it. At some point in time, it needs to be uncompressed to be displayed on the TV.

Wanting 4:4:4 as a signal can't re-create the exact same information that was thrown away when it was compressed down to 4:2:0. It's not lossless like a png or zip file. It's lossy like a jpeg. Much like when you load a JPEG, the file doesn't contain the original data for every single pixel, it's generated mathematically to approximate what was there (it doesn't match 100%, but it's "good enough", hence "lossy") and then displayed.

So the Xbox expands the 4:2:0 from the disc to 4:2:2 (and may do a better or worse job than other players, since there is more than one way to do this, and guess what the colours should be that has to be "filled in").

Next, it sends the 4:2:2 to the TV, which itself does the expanding to 4:4:4 (which may to a better or worse job than other TVs) for display.

I don't know if there is a way to "force" the Xbox1 to do both steps before sending the signal to the TV - best ask on an Xbox forum.

There is with my Samsung K8500, but I prefer to let the TV do this actually. It's hard for me to see the difference, but I trust the processing in the TV more than the processing in the player.

It's a pity that 4:2:0 isn't allowed at 24Hz in HDMI, because that way players could just send the data as it was on the disc, and let the TVs (with more sophisticated processing) do both steps of the expansion.


@mrtickle wrote:

Remember, what is on the disc, is 4:2:0. This is a lossy compressed signal with less information in it. At some point in time, it needs to be uncompressed to be displayed on the TV.

Wanting 4:4:4 as a signal can't re-create the exact same information ttha was thrown away when it was compressed down to 4:2:0. It's not lossless like a png or zip file. It's lossy like a jpeg. Much like when you load a JPEG, the file doesn't contain the original data for every single pixel, it's generated mathematically to approximate what was there (it doesn't match 100%, but it's "good enough", hence "lossy") and then displayed.

So the Xbox expands the 4:2:0 from the disc to 4:2:2 (and may do a better or worse job than other players, since there is more than one way to do this, and guess what the colours should be that has to be "filled in").

Next, it sends the 4:2:2 to the TV, which itself does the expanding to 4:4:4 (which may to a better or worse job than other TVs) for display.

I don't know if there is a way to "force" the Xbox1 to do both steps before sending the signal to the TV - best ask on an Xbox forum.

There is with my Samsung K8500, but I prefer to let the TV do this actually. It's hard for me to see the difference, but I trust the processing in the TV more than the processing in the player.

It's a pity that 4:2:0 isn't allowed at 24Hz in HDMI, because that way players could just send the data as it was on the disc, and let the TVs (with more sophisticated processing) do both steps of the expansion.


@Not possible on the S, but easier to do on the X as it 'supports' more modes on the hardware itself (remember it  supports @Freesync NOW, and will support VRR once available), whereas the S it's all done in software

 

If you use that madVR app I told you about it IS possible to pass an unfiltered signal to the TV and let it do the processing (in fact this is the preferred method to correct enable HDR).

Navigator

Madvr?


@ne_on wrote:

Madvr?


It's an HDR plugin for Windows 10. Allows HDR10 metadata (Yes, Dr Tickler I went there) to be correctly processed by Windows. 

 

Also reads EDID's and other fun stuff too.

Apprentice

Further to my previous post, I sent my Amazon Fire TV3 back as I determined that it was clearly not suitable for getting UHD iPlayer images onto my K8500, more homework might have saved me the trouble but the Amazon tech team were convincing.   I have now tried a Roku+ stick and it does produce an image that claims to be UHD / HLG if the TV's image information is to be believed.   The UHD test loop on the Beta version works as did todays UHD France v Argentina match.   I am still testing but so far, although the picture was good, I am not sure that overall it was the significantly better than HD at least on my TV.  There was extra detail in some scenes but it did not seem to cope well where scenes contain high motion and was quite blurred at times.  I will do some more testing and do some settings optimisation where possible then re-evaluate and report. It might be a case of waiting until I relace my TV especially as UHD content is still thin on the ground and seems likely to be so for some time.  

 

Not likely as Samsung seem all in on 8k panels already! 

 

Yeah, whatever...

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Pathfinder

So, how's the tennis looking?

Voyager

@Moily wrote:

So, how's the tennis looking?


Wish I could tell you. So far tried logging off and on but so far nothing has shown as being in the UHD trial, don't think it's because I was late and all the streams maxed out. Don't know if it's being streamed in UHD at all. Anyone having luck using Roku and getting the tennis in UHD?

Apprentice

Tennis looks fantastic on my 49 KS8000 using Roku +......I got in around 1pm.

 

Try scrolling down the iPlayer page, option didn’t appear at top for me, was off screen.

 

Hope that helps.

Voyager

@F1NNU wrote:

 

Try scrolling down the iPlayer page, option didn’t appear at top for me, was off screen.

 

Hope that helps.


LOL. Yes, that helps. (just at the moment the Federer match finished) LOL. Thank you! All this UHD is spoiling me for normal HD viewing. HD is noticeably fuzzy in comparison. I'd love to watch snooker in UHD.

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