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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

Helping Hand

@Jakobi wrote:

Has this been reported to watchdog/trading standards?

 

Considering these TV's were sold as 'Premium' Ultra HD, compared to other brands which weren't even advertised as premium; and these 'non premium' TV's having the ability to fully utilise HLG & BBC Iplayer in 4K?

 

Bearing in mind 'DVB-DASH (Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP) system' is part of 'European broadcaster streaming guidelines'?

 

Clearly other brands implemented this to make their TV's fit for purpose.


"Ultra HD Premium" has a very specific and precise technical meaning, and it's nothing whatsoever to do with which HDR standards are supported.

It means a 4K panel, which can accept a 10bit signal, and be capable of displaying a minimum of 90% of the P3 colour gamut.

Then comes the fudge, so that both OLEDs and LCDs can pass the test.

  • if it's an OLED, it only needs to get as bright as 540 nits, but must do a blacks as dark as 0.0005 nits.
  • If it's an LCD, it must get as bright as 1,000 nits (but this could be in a very inaccurate mode like "Dynamic" where whites are blue like Xenon headlights), and only needs to get blacks as dark as 0.05 nits.

We might not like it but the fact is that you can't use the "Ultra HD Premium" cerfication in an argument about HDR standards because that certification makes no reference to HDR standards.

 

Helping Hand

@Jakobi wrote:

@TastyBurger666 wrote:

I feel like a stuck record here, had the same conversation on twitter with a broadcast professional who was unaware of the DASH issue...

 

The problem is with the underlying Tizen platform on our TV's not supporting the Wildvine or Clearkey DRM security API's used by the iPlayer app, we'll NEVER get 4k through the onboard 'Smart Hub' app. Our only hope is an offboard solution through the HDMI port (which Samsung have said does allow HLG assuming the EDID fault is corrected).

 

Samsung will never ever ever ever come out and admit this. Ever. Don't bother, it's a waste of your time. Punish them in the wallet at your next TV purchase.


Well, Samsung seem to have the know how as they managed to implement it on their 2017 & 2018 Tizen platform.

Don't they just need to update our Tizen OS? It should be a matter of when & not if, even if it was an opt in engineer sent out to do this.

 


It's nothing to do with "know-how". The 2017 & 2018 Tizen platforms DO support the DRM security required. Our 2016 Tizen does NOT support the DRM security required. It's baked into the guts of the OS and cannot realistically be changed. That's the answer (again).

 

I realise you are new here so will be gentle but please realise that we have spent 300 pages and 6 very tiring months discussing this to death. You are sauntering in right at the end of the discussion. Please, please do one of these things:

1. either read all 300 pages to gain a full understanding, or

2. accept our friendly short-cut to the answer: it is not going to happen (or be technically feasible to) - upgrading the underlying OS on the TV to support DVB-DASH, even if Samsung wanted to do it, which they definnitely do not. You'd have more luck getting a build of Windows 10 to work on a 1990's Dixons Packard Hell PC (reductio ad absurdum example to illustrate the point). 

 

HTH

 

 

Hotshot
And Samsung would much you prefer to buy one of their new shiny models. They have said the are not going to update the ks and that is on here a few pages back.
Highlighted
Helping Hand

 

 

The TV will just say "HDR" regardless of it's it's HDR10 or HLG.

For HDMI sources, it's very easy. Press i to bring up the info.

Source-info3.png


@Jakobi wrote:

@TastyBurger666 wrote:

@Jakobi wrote:

Has this been reported to watchdog/trading standards?

 

Considering these TV's were sold as 'Premium' Ultra HD, compared to other brands which weren't even advertised as premium; and these 'non premium' TV's having the ability to fully utilise HLG & BBC Iplayer in 4K?

 

Bearing in mind 'DVB-DASH (Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP) system' is part of 'European broadcaster streaming guidelines'?

 

Clearly other brands implemented this to make their TV's fit for purpose.


I feel like a stuck record here, had the same conversation on twitter with a broadcast professional who was unaware of the DASH issue...

 

The problem is with the underlying Tizen platform on our TV's not supporting the Wildvine or Clearkey DRM security API's used by the iPlayer app, we'll NEVER get 4k through the onboard 'Smart Hub' app. Our only hope is an offboard solution through the HDMI port (which Samsung have said does allow HLG assuming the EDID fault is corrected).

 

Samsung will never ever ever ever come out and admit this. Ever. Don't bother, it's a waste of your time. Punish them in the wallet at your next TV purchase.


Well, Samsung seem to have the know how as they managed to implement it on their 2017 & 2018 Tizen platform.

Don't they just need to update our Tizen OS? It should be a matter of when & not if, even if it was an opt in engineer sent out to do this.

 


I'm afraid not, my friend. It might look like just a reskinned version of Tizen on the newer versions, but underneath it's a completely new version of Linux and Tizen OS, think of it like this: the version of Tizen on the KS sets is Windows 8, the version on the KU sets is Windows 10 Redstone 4, i.e. several generations removed.

Apprentice

I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.

Apprentice

***DUPLICATE POST***

Voyager

@MJM87 wrote:
I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.

Tbf with the exception of Sony (due to android) no TV manufacturer updates beyond there base OS

 

cheers

Apprentice

@chopples123 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:
I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.

Tbf with the exception of Sony (due to android) no TV manufacturer updates beyond there base OS

 

cheers


Doesn't mean it's difficult though. There are countless ARM-based systems that run some flavour of the Linux kernel that are updatable, TVs are no different. In all honesty I don't expect it would require an entirely new OS anyway - why wouldn't they just distribute a binary to support iPlayer HLG broadcasts in the same way they distributed one to support other HLG broadcasts? The technical barriers are very low, just ask all the other manufacturers who updated their sets.


@MJM87 wrote:

I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.


Uncomplicated?

 

Tizen is basically Samsung's version of Android; it's a lightweight HTML5 / C++ wrapper on a Linux base OS, so it's as 'uncomplicated' as Linux gets, I guess. Would you call AndroidTV 'uncomplicated', when it's still the same base OS that's in your phone?

 

Anyway, it's worse than that, the Tizen version in 2015/2016 Samsung TV's is functionally obsolete, it cannot be upgraded, not a question of whether it's 'lazy', they just can't do it!

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