iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

[ewanstancarr]

So, of the nigh on 400 TVs supported in BBC iplayer for the Blue Planet II  HLG episodes none are from Samsung. Oh joy. 

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Moderator edit: Original thread title was "Blue Planet 2 HLG - No Samsung". With the OP's permission, the title was changed on 12/03/2018 to accurately reflect the dominant theme of the thread as it has progressed. If the reader would like to know more about the HLG format, please check out the BBC's page and FAQ's on it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/high-dynamic-range Thank you, AntS.

[amokuk]

I just initiated a small claim court action on Samsung. They have 14 days to contest it.

[paul1277]

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@BAMozzywrote:

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@paul1111wrote:

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@mrticklewrote:

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@chopples123wrote:

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Hi I will give it another go, What do you not understand or disagree with mate?

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To what benefit, can't we all move on? 

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At the end of the day is there any 2016 or older Samsung TVs that can display IPLAYER hlg? Is there any way it can be done?  Will sky hlg work via hdmi? Have 2016 and older Samsung owners been mi's lead? Will Samsung 2016 and older get HDR10 +?  And we do know we will not get the smart connect dongle as promised.  Have I got anything wrong? 

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At the end of the day is there any 2016 or older Samsung TVs that can display IPLAYER hlg?

At the moment NO - Its basically guaranteed that the in-built App won't support 4k/HLG iPlayer. That doesn't mean that there won't ever be a way to watch 4k/HLG iPlayer which is why its IMPORTANT we look at HLG over HDMI and whether or not Samsung sort ut the EDID issue as that will enable a multitude of devices that may have 4k/HLG iPlayer enabled and therefore work.

Is there any way it can be done?

See above. There are other ways - like a big update to Tizen that would then enable the inbuilt App to work but that's much more unlikely than the EDID fix..

Will sky hlg work via hdmi?

Again - see above. That really depends on if Sky requires the TV to state its HLG or whether just HDR will be enough but I expect it will need the EDID fix. Until Sky launches HDR and starts broadcasting though, we don't know for definite and could well be fixed by the time Sky start broadcasting in the UK

Have 2016 and older Samsung owners been mi's lead?

Depends on how many assumptions you made with each statement from Samsung. They never mentioned iPlayer (or ANY 3rd Party Apps) with regards to HLG. The statement was that the TV would be enabled - doesn't mean that ALL 3rd party software can or will take advantage of that and they certainly can't promise that these 3rd party Apps will offer HLG. Its similar to when they said HDR gaming will be supported (it wasn't on release) and that was patched - however it doesn't automatically switch to a HDR Game mode but Samsung NEVER promised that - people assumed and expected that but Game mode does support HDR as they said it would. If you bought your TV with SmartThings in mind and all that promised, then you have been miss-sold/Miss-lead. HDR10+ may well be too early to comment on as that hasn't officially been cancelled and HLG could well be 'fixed' to work with other devices so miss-lead is perhaps to strong but maybe not if things don't get fixed/patched. A lot of the problem is that a single sentence has lead to a LOT of Assumption and expectation - so if you have made assumptions and expected far more than was actually promised/delivered, then is that being miss-lead or mis-interpreted by the consumer?

Will Samsung 2016 and older get HDR10 +?

Who knows? I think its unlikely the older TV's will - Samsung never mentioned 2015 and older TV's at all with regards to HDR10+. We haven't had any official statement eitherway and therefore only Samsung know. Its looking increasingly unlikely as they have gone out of their way to remove any statement from their website...

ALL of the above has been stated over and over and over again yet you still continue to demand Answers. ALL of these are unlikely to be answered in the next 24hrs either and some could take 'months' to be answered (if they ever do) so demanding answers to the same questions over and over again isn't helping or constructive. I hope though that you now have the answers - as vague as they are because we are NO closer to definitive answers than we were yesterday, last week, last month even.

The only thing we know for definite is that the promised SmartThings dongle has been cancelled and therefore if you bought your TV based on that function/feature, you have every reason to go for a miss-selling claim. If you don't like the implementation of HLG so far and/or waiting to see if things are improved - along with waiting for official statement on HDR10+ then you may be able to use SmartThings to your advantage to go for a miss-selling claim

However waiting is all we KS owners can do. The information and answers you are seeking are not forthcoming and certainly some won't be answered conclusively for months. Its possiblre that Samsung could fix the EDID issue in the next couple of months and then we could have access to BBC 4kHLG iPlayer through external devices (very unlikely we will get it through the internal App) and that would then answer your question about iPlayer, Sky etc but at the moment, we will just have to wait - so little point in asking the same questions over and over again - I am sure that if members of this thread get any 'new' information, it will be posted here!

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i think this was answered for paul1111 quite well,  but yours was really over the top. 

[BAMozzy]

I understand what @Saverio571 was trying to say about HLG and its comparison to the Pseudo HDR+ mode. The principal is very similar in but the application is different. Neither offer the wider colour gamut (or so it appears with HLG) so the colours are more muted when compared to HDR10. Its more 'consistent' than HDR+ which can work very well in some scenes but seem off in others. This also gives HLG a more natural looking HDR than HDR+.

The HLG demo's look great and 'consistent' throughout. However when you look at the HDR10 versions, the colours look richer, more vibrant. Reds and Greens are the most noticeable. With the Wider Colour Gamut, that doesn't mean that 'all' colours in scene are outside of the REC709 (SDR) range as the REC709 gamut fits inside the DCI-P3 gamut.

As the illustration  above shows, REC709 fits inside the DCI-P3 gamut and so the majority of colours are the same regardless. The Wider Colour Gamut though can have more Reds and Greens in particular than REC709 which is why these can be more vibrant, more rich. The 'Arc' shape represents the full range of colours the 'average' human can see but the triangles represent the different colour range of content. REC709 being the SDR range and it seems the range of HLG too - understandably as it is supposed to work for all TV's - not just those with DCI-P3 or REC2020 colour gamuts.

[UHDHDR]

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@BAMozzywrote:

I understand what @Saverio571 was trying to say about HLG and its comparison to the Pseudo HDR+ mode. The principal is very similar in but the application is different. Neither offer the wider colour gamut (or so it appears with HLG) so the colours are more muted when compared to HDR10. Its more 'consistent' than HDR+ which can work very well in some scenes but seem off in others. This also gives HLG a more natural looking HDR than HDR+.

The HLG demo's look great and 'consistent' throughout. However when you look at the HDR10 versions, the colours look richer, more vibrant. Reds and Greens are the most noticeable. With the Wider Colour Gamut, that doesn't mean that 'all' colours in scene are outside of the REC709 (SDR) range as the REC709 gamut fits inside the DCI-P3 gamut.

As the illustration  above shows, REC709 fits inside the DCI-P3 gamut and so the majority of colours are the same regardless. The Wider Colour Gamut though can have more Reds and Greens in particular than REC709 which is why these can be more vibrant, more rich. The 'Arc' shape represents the full range of colours the 'average' human can see but the triangles represent the different colour range of content. REC709 being the SDR range and it seems the range of HLG too - understandably as it is supposed to work for all TV's - not just those with DCI-P3 or REC2020 colour gamuts.

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That's not true. HLG does offer wide color gamut. HDR10 looks better because when you are grading for HLG, you are creating an image that is supposed to look good on an SDR rec709 TV, and also provide an acceptable HDR image on an HDR display. The problem with that is in post production, you have to apply a separate correction to the mid tones and to the highlights, because the gamma is very different between the two. So grading is trickier for HLG, whereas for HDR10, you worry mostly about optimizing the image for an HDR display. 

[Pete1234]

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@chopples123wrote:

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@mrticklewrote:

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@chopples123wrote:

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Hi I will give it another go, What do you not understand or disagree with mate?

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To what benefit, can't we all move on? 

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Appreciate that mate but the information they are giving out is wrong, Other readers may go out and buy a hisense or whatever to replace there KS because they believe they will be getting BBC HLG. when all they would be getting is the UHD SDR trial on an inferior TV

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At this point we would have been better off buying a hisense as we could have watched the blue planet series in 4k and saved some money with it 

[paul1277]

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@Pete1234wrote:

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@chopples123wrote:

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@mrticklewrote:

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@chopples123wrote:

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Hi I will give it another go, What do you not understand or disagree with mate?

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To what benefit, can't we all move on? 

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Appreciate that mate but the information they are giving out is wrong, Other readers may go out and buy a hisense or whatever to replace there KS because they believe they will be getting BBC HLG. when all they would be getting is the UHD SDR trial on an inferior TV

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At this point we would have been better off buying a hisense as we could have watched the blue planet series in 4k and saved some money with it 

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Be careful because as paul1111 has found having an opinium that is not in line with some means you get a bit if a hard time! !!!

[Pete1234]

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@paul1277wrote:

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@Pete1234wrote:

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@chopples123wrote:

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@mrticklewrote:

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@chopples123wrote:

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Hi I will give it another go, What do you not understand or disagree with mate?

---

To what benefit, can't we all move on? 

---

Appreciate that mate but the information they are giving out is wrong, Other readers may go out and buy a hisense or whatever to replace there KS because they believe they will be getting BBC HLG. when all they would be getting is the UHD SDR trial on an inferior TV

---

At this point we would have been better off buying a hisense as we could have watched the blue planet series in 4k and saved some money with it 

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Be careful because as paul1111 has found having an opinium that is not in line with some means you get a bit if a hard time! !!!

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Yes I saw that!  But it's a fact that many other manufacturers enabled their tv's to work with the HLG HDR iPlayer and Samsung did not and seemingly won't.  

Whether those other tv's will give the full HDR experience is a different question and not actually the subject of this thread.  

[JAMES4578]

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@Pete1234wrote:

Yes I saw that!  But it's a fact that many other manufacturers enabled their tv's to work with the HLG HDR iPlayer and Samsung did not and seemingly won't.  

Whether those other tv's will give the full HDR experience is a different question and not actually the subject of this thread.  

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Most manufacturers (other than LG/Panasonic) only enabled their 2017  TVs to work with Iplayer HLG, as did Samsung eventually. of course some not exactly comparable, however just clarifying this point! As has been pointed out not all the devices displayed true HLG and for some it was vanilla UHD  (SDR)   I think the subject of  full HDR is very much related but we can disagree amicably.

I appreciate the frustrations of KS owners and you are obviously entitled to seek redress as desired, certainly does not look positive if reports of technical challenges with the  DVB-DASH format on 2016 software are correct.  However if Iplayer HLG can be supported on external devices does offer another option.

[MC_Blade]

I think this confirms the issue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/02/23/samsung-confirms-no-bbc-iplayer-hdr-support-for-i...

Seems Samsung will never fix it because the just can't with that hardware.

[Saverio571]

New Sky Q firmware has arrived. Later I will have information about the KL HLG.
For now it seems that even the LG of 2016 have problems.
the new Sky Q Sw allows you to choose between 4k and 4k HDR output. If the TV does not support HDR, an on-screen message will appear.