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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

(Topic created on: 06-03-2018 09:14 PM)
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ewanstancarr
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So, of the nigh on 400 TVs supported in BBC iplayer for the Blue Planet II  HLG episodes none are from Samsung. Oh joy. 

...

Moderator edit: Original thread title was "Blue Planet 2 HLG - No Samsung". With the OP's permission, the title was changed on 12/03/2018 to accurately reflect the dominant theme of the thread as it has progressed. If the reader would like to know more about the HLG format, please check out the BBC's page and FAQ's on it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/high-dynamic-range Thank you, AntS.

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BAMozzy
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@paul1111wrote:

I think KS refunds is the place to go. There were some posters shouting yesterday who seem to have gone quite with this new info. I know it will not affect anyone in Canada but it certainly will in Europe!


Other posters have lives too - they don't sit here waiting for the next response just so they can respond - they work!!! Nothing has changed in 24hrs, no NEW information, NOTHING more to say until we here from Samsung, Sky or any other potential HLG enabled external devices. You aren't going to get NEW information daily - ley alone hourly and what was true yesterday - is still true today and will probably be true for weeks!

 

The issue doesn't appear to be directly related to HLG or whether Samsung must of known the 'specs' for months. The issue appears to be more about the information they are receiving from the TV. That may not be a 'universal' thing - ie 1 answer for all devices. This is evident in the fact that the Samsung and Oppo Bluray Players 'work' with the very limited HLG content they offer but Direct TV doesn't because its not recieving the exact information that needs to tell the box its connected to a HLG enabled display and therefore can send HLG. Sky could be in the same boat too when they launch HDR. It maybe that Samsung have received the tech breakdown of these and what each device needs to hear to enable HLG to work.

 

At the moment though, it looks like we are in a situation where some devices may not be compatible where others could be. Rather than be able to go out and buy a Sony or Panasonic Bluray player, you may have to buy a Samsung or Oppo if you want HLG. Of course if Samsung don't come up with a Fix for SkyQ, then their wil be even more anger across the whole of Europe and not just from the UK like they have with the in-built iPlayer App.

 

What this also means though is that it could still be possible for some HLG enabled devices to offer BBC HLG iPlayer via HDMI where as others may not work because the TV isn't giving that device the right information. It appears that 'devices' may not be 'universally' compatible with the KS - at least not until Samsung update the EDID to actually tell devices its HLG enabled rather than just HDR. That also needs to work universally with ALL HLG enabled devices.

 

I can't see any 'new' information being forthcoming in the next 24hrs, maybe not even in the next week and therefore its no point getting worked up over it, demanding answers that cannot be given. Its 2 days before SkyQ adds HDR in Italy (it seems) with a fortnight before the first broadcast. Its not as if we are seeing a lot of HLG enabled devices launch either to know which work, which don't and certainly no point speculating or demanding answers that no one can categorically give - especially not every single day/hour.

 

I 100% agree that Samsung should be far more active on their forums - not leave it up to moderators or allow this constent speculation and inaccurate information to continue. I really cannot understand why they cannot have a 'tech' guy go through the Forums and provide accurate answers, updates etc. Even if its not 'concrete' like saying an update is due to release in a week to fix the EDID issue but that'we are aware of this and currently working on a fix but don't know yet when it will release' or even a flat out 'this is as good as it gets'. It would stop the speculating as well as give 'accurate' details of what the TV is capable of right now.

 

However as NO-ONE has accurate information on what Samsung are planning to do, whether Sky will work or not (if not immediately, within a decent time-frame) etc, there is NO point demanding information that no-one has. I am sure that if people were aware of any NEW developments, new information, that they would share.

crashcris
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BAMozzy... Can you imagine what would happen if Samsung were to issue answers to some of the questions on this forum? It would be a bloodbath! There'd be accusations flying back and forth "You said X would work with Y by Z and it's Z+1 now and nothing's happened yet, you haven't fulfilled your contract, I'm suing for distress, misselling, misdirection, etc, etc, etc"

I'm not at all surprised there isn't a running answer service to our woes. Give it time and see what happens, in the mean time if you're all in the frame of mind to get a refund (and as KS owners it's been established that you have a case) I'd suggest initiating that as soon as possible.

paul1111
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@BAMozzywrote:

@paul1111wrote:

I think KS refunds is the place to go. There were some posters shouting yesterday who seem to have gone quite with this new info. I know it will not affect anyone in Canada but it certainly will in Europe!


Other posters have lives too - they don't sit here waiting for the next response just so they can respond - they work!!! Nothing has changed in 24hrs, no NEW information, NOTHING more to say until we here from Samsung, Sky or any other potential HLG enabled external devices. You aren't going to get NEW information daily - ley alone hourly and what was true yesterday - is still true today and will probably be true for weeks!

 

The issue doesn't appear to be directly related to HLG or whether Samsung must of known the 'specs' for months. The issue appears to be more about the information they are receiving from the TV. That may not be a 'universal' thing - ie 1 answer for all devices. This is evident in the fact that the Samsung and Oppo Bluray Players 'work' with the very limited HLG content they offer but Direct TV doesn't because its not recieving the exact information that needs to tell the box its connected to a HLG enabled display and therefore can send HLG. Sky could be in the same boat too when they launch HDR. It maybe that Samsung have received the tech breakdown of these and what each device needs to hear to enable HLG to work.

 

At the moment though, it looks like we are in a situation where some devices may not be compatible where others could be. Rather than be able to go out and buy a Sony or Panasonic Bluray player, you may have to buy a Samsung or Oppo if you want HLG. Of course if Samsung don't come up with a Fix for SkyQ, then their wil be even more anger across the whole of Europe and not just from the UK like they have with the in-built iPlayer App.

 

What this also means though is that it could still be possible for some HLG enabled devices to offer BBC HLG iPlayer via HDMI where as others may not work because the TV isn't giving that device the right information. It appears that 'devices' may not be 'universally' compatible with the KS - at least not until Samsung update the EDID to actually tell devices its HLG enabled rather than just HDR. That also needs to work universally with ALL HLG enabled devices.

 

I can't see any 'new' information being forthcoming in the next 24hrs, maybe not even in the next week and therefore its no point getting worked up over it, demanding answers that cannot be given. Its 2 days before SkyQ adds HDR in Italy (it seems) with a fortnight before the first broadcast. Its not as if we are seeing a lot of HLG enabled devices launch either to know which work, which don't and certainly no point speculating or demanding answers that no one can categorically give - especially not every single day/hour.

 

I 100% agree that Samsung should be far more active on their forums - not leave it up to moderators or allow this constent speculation and inaccurate information to continue. I really cannot understand why they cannot have a 'tech' guy go through the Forums and provide accurate answers, updates etc. Even if its not 'concrete' like saying an update is due to release in a week to fix the EDID issue but that'we are aware of this and currently working on a fix but don't know yet when it will release' or even a flat out 'this is as good as it gets'. It would stop the speculating as well as give 'accurate' details of what the TV is capable of right now.

 

However as NO-ONE has accurate information on what Samsung are planning to do, whether Sky will work or not (if not immediately, within a decent time-frame) etc, there is NO point demanding information that no-one has. I am sure that if people were aware of any NEW developments, new information, that they would share.


Before I say anything a apologize , but this is bull s***!  I agree with you on one thing and that is Samsung must be more proactive and give the correct information and then you can stop lambesting me with very long winded nothings. You have seen that the ks now might not get an update until April , not when sky lunches HDR.  What is it that you want from me,  do you want me on my knees and pray for forgiveness.  

paul1111
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@crashcriswrote:

BAMozzy... Can you imagine what would happen if Samsung were to issue answers to some of the questions on this forum? It would be a bloodbath! There'd be accusations flying back and forth "You said X would work with Y by Z and it's Z+1 now and nothing's happened yet, you haven't fulfilled your contract, I'm suing for distress, misselling, misdirection, etc, etc, etc"

I'm not at all surprised there isn't a running answer service to our woes. Give it time and see what happens, in the mean time if you're all in the frame of mind to get a refund (and as KS owners it's been established that you have a case) I'd suggest initiating that as soon as possible.


Thanks for the support but I do wonder sometimes am I on a different planet.  I am now going to ks owners and helping as much as I can there. 

BAMozzy
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@crashcriswrote:

BAMozzy... Can you imagine what would happen if Samsung were to issue answers to some of the questions on this forum? It would be a bloodbath! There'd be accusations flying back and forth "You said X would work with Y by Z and it's Z+1 now and nothing's happened yet, you haven't fulfilled your contract, I'm suing for distress, misselling, misdirection, etc, etc, etc"

I'm not at all surprised there isn't a running answer service to our woes. Give it time and see what happens, in the mean time if you're all in the frame of mind to get a refund (and as KS owners it's been established that you have a case) I'd suggest initiating that as soon as possible.


I do agree in part but if they were here from the start, then there may not have been so much confusion or miss-understanding. They really ought to have a bigger presence in their forums!

 

As for those who are 'hanging' on to see what transpires, that's up to them but I do think they should go for the miss-selling over the SmartThings issue sooner rather than later. The 2017 TV's - particularly the LG OLEDs are much more 'future proof' and versatile too. The Prices are reasonable too with 2018 models about to launch. I doubt that you will get a decent 2018 TV for the money you may get back from a miss-selling claim.

 

amokuk
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@BAMozzy most of that ia nonsense. Look hdmi handshake isnt something that works periodically, its a technical handshake advertising hardware capability. The fact that some devices break this means they are also broken not that the ks somehow works. The directv engineer has confirmed the ks doesnt advertise hlg capability. We already know that the picture from these devices is poor with wasged out colours so lets not pretend everything is fine. Just becuawe something send a hlg signal, breaking the handshake rules doesnt make everything fine and dandy. It either works properly or it doesn't.

 

Samsung have had plenty of tine to get this sorted so again lets not pretend this situation is acceptable.

UHDHDR
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@amokukwrote:

@BAMozzy most of that ia nonsense. Look hdmi handshake isnt something that works periodically, its a technical handshake advertising hardware capability. The fact that some devices break this means they are also broken not that the ks somehow works. The directv engineer has confirmed the ks doesnt advertise hlg capability. We already know that the picture from these devices is poor with wasged out colours so lets not pretend everything is fine. Just becuawe something send a hlg signal, breaking the handshake rules doesnt make everything fine and dandy. It either works properly or it doesn't.

 

Samsung have had plenty of tine to get this sorted so again lets not pretend this situation is acceptable.


When I mentioned the Chromecast Ultra issue with washed out colors as a result of the EDID miscommunication, it was in regards to HDR10, not HLG. So the TV has EDID issues with several devices, regardless of the HDR format. HLG, as has already been proven, does indeed work over HDMI. The EDID issue is what needs to be fixed in order to fix the image quality for HLG over HDMI, as well as compatibility for other devices (such as DirectTV and Sky equipment.)

BAMozzy
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@paul1111wrote:

@BAMozzywrote:

@paul1111wrote:

I think KS refunds is the place to go. There were some posters shouting yesterday who seem to have gone quite with this new info. I know it will not affect anyone in Canada but it certainly will in Europe!


Other posters have lives too - they don't sit here waiting for the next response just so they can respond - they work!!! Nothing has changed in 24hrs, no NEW information, NOTHING more to say until we here from Samsung, Sky or any other potential HLG enabled external devices. You aren't going to get NEW information daily - ley alone hourly and what was true yesterday - is still true today and will probably be true for weeks!

 

The issue doesn't appear to be directly related to HLG or whether Samsung must of known the 'specs' for months. The issue appears to be more about the information they are receiving from the TV. That may not be a 'universal' thing - ie 1 answer for all devices. This is evident in the fact that the Samsung and Oppo Bluray Players 'work' with the very limited HLG content they offer but Direct TV doesn't because its not recieving the exact information that needs to tell the box its connected to a HLG enabled display and therefore can send HLG. Sky could be in the same boat too when they launch HDR. It maybe that Samsung have received the tech breakdown of these and what each device needs to hear to enable HLG to work.

 

At the moment though, it looks like we are in a situation where some devices may not be compatible where others could be. Rather than be able to go out and buy a Sony or Panasonic Bluray player, you may have to buy a Samsung or Oppo if you want HLG. Of course if Samsung don't come up with a Fix for SkyQ, then their wil be even more anger across the whole of Europe and not just from the UK like they have with the in-built iPlayer App.

 

What this also means though is that it could still be possible for some HLG enabled devices to offer BBC HLG iPlayer via HDMI where as others may not work because the TV isn't giving that device the right information. It appears that 'devices' may not be 'universally' compatible with the KS - at least not until Samsung update the EDID to actually tell devices its HLG enabled rather than just HDR. That also needs to work universally with ALL HLG enabled devices.

 

I can't see any 'new' information being forthcoming in the next 24hrs, maybe not even in the next week and therefore its no point getting worked up over it, demanding answers that cannot be given. Its 2 days before SkyQ adds HDR in Italy (it seems) with a fortnight before the first broadcast. Its not as if we are seeing a lot of HLG enabled devices launch either to know which work, which don't and certainly no point speculating or demanding answers that no one can categorically give - especially not every single day/hour.

 

I 100% agree that Samsung should be far more active on their forums - not leave it up to moderators or allow this constent speculation and inaccurate information to continue. I really cannot understand why they cannot have a 'tech' guy go through the Forums and provide accurate answers, updates etc. Even if its not 'concrete' like saying an update is due to release in a week to fix the EDID issue but that'we are aware of this and currently working on a fix but don't know yet when it will release' or even a flat out 'this is as good as it gets'. It would stop the speculating as well as give 'accurate' details of what the TV is capable of right now.

 

However as NO-ONE has accurate information on what Samsung are planning to do, whether Sky will work or not (if not immediately, within a decent time-frame) etc, there is NO point demanding information that no-one has. I am sure that if people were aware of any NEW developments, new information, that they would share.


Before I say anything a apologize , but this is bull s***!  I agree with you on one thing and that is Samsung must be more proactive and give the correct information and then you can stop lambesting me with very long winded nothings. You have seen that the ks now might not get an update until April , not when sky lunches HDR.  What is it that you want from me,  do you want me on my knees and pray for forgiveness.  


Not at all - but there is absolutely no need for demanding answers about things that NO-ONE has an answer to. The KS may not get an update til April but it may happen sooner (or later) that was NOT an official date but someone speculating that it may take a month+ to get the update out. That wasn't an official comment, wasn't from an insider in the know etc but someone who is speculating. If they said they speculated it would be before the first F1 race, that wouldn't be anymore accurate either but then you would take that as gospel and accuse them of lying or missleading you.

 

Demanding that people give you answers to things that NO-ONE knows, criticising people for not commenting since yesterday evening - even though most would have been at work is not exactly helping either. Even if Samsung don't manage to get an update out by the first 'live' broadcast, is that absolutely 'devastating'? April is only a week laterbut what is 'important', is whether Samsung are actually planning to fix this or not. Of course its 'disappointing' if it misses the first F1 broadcast (assuming that's even broadcast in HLG in the UK) but its not the end of the world if a 'fix' comes soon after.

 

However, I am NOT going to lose sleep about it for the next few weeks as it makes NO difference to me, you or ANYONE else because there is NO content planned before the start of the F1 season. I am not demanding that people come on hourly and comment otherwise they have gone 'quiet' despite having NO new information, Not demanding answers from people that can't provide them. Sky aren't even updating their boxes until the 8th, no new HLG devices are coming out in the next week (that I know of), no new 'updates' on Samsungs Website to speculate on etc. No point in getting your knickers in a twist because someone speculates that Samsung will not update the KS until April.

 

Why not thank people and ask them politely to keep you updated if and when any new developments occur? Why not wait to see if any others have any 'new' information and have 'patience' because new information isn't coming out 'hourly' and others have commitments (like work) so are NOT going to be sat here speculating. If the person had said they expect Samsung to have a fix in place by 23rd March, wuld you then take that as gospel, blame them for lying and accuse Samsung of not sticking to the 'promise' of a fix by that date - even though it was pure speculationand nothing official from Samsung?? It was pure speculation - as in what they 'think' is most likely to happen. Its like me speculating the PS5 will launch in Nov 2019 but if it doesn't, that's not Sony's fault, not me misleading people - just pure speculation.

BAMozzy
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@amokukwrote:

@BAMozzy most of that ia nonsense. Look hdmi handshake isnt something that works periodically, its a technical handshake advertising hardware capability. The fact that some devices break this means they are also broken not that the ks somehow works. The directv engineer has confirmed the ks doesnt advertise hlg capability. We already know that the picture from these devices is poor with wasged out colours so lets not pretend everything is fine. Just becuawe something send a hlg signal, breaking the handshake rules doesnt make everything fine and dandy. It either works properly or it doesn't.

 

Samsung have had plenty of tine to get this sorted so again lets not pretend this situation is acceptable.


I never said the 'handshake' would be something that works periodically. What I said is that some devices may NOT handshake at all (unless Samsung updates) and therefore won't deliver HLG because the device never receives the information it needs. Other devices may not need that 'specific' HLG handshake and therefore work - after all HLG isn't using Metadata and is sent via a single stream. Those devices could just send HLG regardless and those TV's that are enabled get HDR and those that don't get SDR. That's the beauty of HLG and why it is favoured by broadcasters.

 

The point I was making though is that if some devices don't need the 'HLG' handshake, they could work where as those that do won't - not periodically, not ever!

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paul1111
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@BAMozzywrote:

@paul1111wrote:

@BAMozzywrote:

@paul1111wrote:

I think KS refunds is the place to go. There were some posters shouting yesterday who seem to have gone quite with this new info. I know it will not affect anyone in Canada but it certainly will in Europe!


Other posters have lives too - they don't sit here waiting for the next response just so they can respond - they work!!! Nothing has changed in 24hrs, no NEW information, NOTHING more to say until we here from Samsung, Sky or any other potential HLG enabled external devices. You aren't going to get NEW information daily - ley alone hourly and what was true yesterday - is still true today and will probably be true for weeks!

 

The issue doesn't appear to be directly related to HLG or whether Samsung must of known the 'specs' for months. The issue appears to be more about the information they are receiving from the TV. That may not be a 'universal' thing - ie 1 answer for all devices. This is evident in the fact that the Samsung and Oppo Bluray Players 'work' with the very limited HLG content they offer but Direct TV doesn't because its not recieving the exact information that needs to tell the box its connected to a HLG enabled display and therefore can send HLG. Sky could be in the same boat too when they launch HDR. It maybe that Samsung have received the tech breakdown of these and what each device needs to hear to enable HLG to work.

 

At the moment though, it looks like we are in a situation where some devices may not be compatible where others could be. Rather than be able to go out and buy a Sony or Panasonic Bluray player, you may have to buy a Samsung or Oppo if you want HLG. Of course if Samsung don't come up with a Fix for SkyQ, then their wil be even more anger across the whole of Europe and not just from the UK like they have with the in-built iPlayer App.

 

What this also means though is that it could still be possible for some HLG enabled devices to offer BBC HLG iPlayer via HDMI where as others may not work because the TV isn't giving that device the right information. It appears that 'devices' may not be 'universally' compatible with the KS - at least not until Samsung update the EDID to actually tell devices its HLG enabled rather than just HDR. That also needs to work universally with ALL HLG enabled devices.

 

I can't see any 'new' information being forthcoming in the next 24hrs, maybe not even in the next week and therefore its no point getting worked up over it, demanding answers that cannot be given. Its 2 days before SkyQ adds HDR in Italy (it seems) with a fortnight before the first broadcast. Its not as if we are seeing a lot of HLG enabled devices launch either to know which work, which don't and certainly no point speculating or demanding answers that no one can categorically give - especially not every single day/hour.

 

I 100% agree that Samsung should be far more active on their forums - not leave it up to moderators or allow this constent speculation and inaccurate information to continue. I really cannot understand why they cannot have a 'tech' guy go through the Forums and provide accurate answers, updates etc. Even if its not 'concrete' like saying an update is due to release in a week to fix the EDID issue but that'we are aware of this and currently working on a fix but don't know yet when it will release' or even a flat out 'this is as good as it gets'. It would stop the speculating as well as give 'accurate' details of what the TV is capable of right now.

 

However as NO-ONE has accurate information on what Samsung are planning to do, whether Sky will work or not (if not immediately, within a decent time-frame) etc, there is NO point demanding information that no-one has. I am sure that if people were aware of any NEW developments, new information, that they would share.


Before I say anything a apologize , but this is bull s***!  I agree with you on one thing and that is Samsung must be more proactive and give the correct information and then you can stop lambesting me with very long winded nothings. You have seen that the ks now might not get an update until April , not when sky lunches HDR.  What is it that you want from me,  do you want me on my knees and pray for forgiveness.  


Not at all - but there is absolutely no need for demanding answers about things that NO-ONE has an answer to. The KS may not get an update til April but it may happen sooner (or later) that was NOT an official date but someone speculating that it may take a month+ to get the update out. That wasn't an official comment, wasn't from an insider in the know etc but someone who is speculating. If they said they speculated it would be before the first F1 race, that wouldn't be anymore accurate either but then you would take that as gospel and accuse them of lying or missleading you.

 

Demanding that people give you answers to things that NO-ONE knows, criticising people for not commenting since yesterday evening - even though most would have been at work is not exactly helping either. Even if Samsung don't manage to get an update out by the first 'live' broadcast, is that absolutely 'devastating'? April is only a week laterbut what is 'important', is whether Samsung are actually planning to fix this or not. Of course its 'disappointing' if it misses the first F1 broadcast (assuming that's even broadcast in HLG in the UK) but its not the end of the world if a 'fix' comes soon after.

 

However, I am NOT going to lose sleep about it for the next few weeks as it makes NO difference to me, you or ANYONE else because there is NO content planned before the start of the F1 season. I am not demanding that people come on hourly and comment otherwise they have gone 'quiet' despite having NO new information, Not demanding answers from people that can't provide them. Sky aren't even updating their boxes until the 8th, no new HLG devices are coming out in the next week (that I know of), no new 'updates' on Samsungs Website to speculate on etc. No point in getting your knickers in a twist because someone speculates that Samsung will not update the KS until April.

 

Why not thank people and ask them politely to keep you updated if and when any new developments occur? Why not wait to see if any others have any 'new' information and have 'patience' because new information isn't coming out 'hourly' and others have commitments (like work) so are NOT going to be sat here speculating. If the person had said they expect Samsung to have a fix in place by 23rd March, wuld you then take that as gospel, blame them for lying and accuse Samsung of not sticking to the 'promise' of a fix by that date - even though it was pure speculationand nothing official from Samsung?? It was pure speculation - as in what they 'think' is most likely to happen. Its like me speculating the PS5 will launch in Nov 2019 but if it doesn't, that's not Sony's fault, not me misleading people - just pure speculation.


Why are you attacking me and not others who disagree with you! You are the one getting personal so just leave it as we dissagree. I thought it was the idea to voice once opinions here,  and yes ask for clarification. I have said I am not an expert and just want to know why and if I will be able to receive bbc IPLAYER hlg from any source that I can afford. I have said I am not really to interested about hlg over hdmi because I can not see me using it,  but I appreciate there are those that are and that is why I suggested a different thread.  I have said sorry for some things I have said and I now really find it hard to understand why you find it for me to believe someone you have defended in the past.  It was out Italian friend who said this and ants the mod has said he is a well respected member and I totally agree with that. It seems anything I say even white is white will get shot down with paragraphs of stuff with nothing to do with this thread