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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

Black Belt 

wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

Is the iPlayer issue with the built in BBC app, or with the tv firmware itself?

 

i.e. If Apple TV was to add support for HLG, could the tv then display it?


As per BBC TV firmware cannot support the HLG updated app

As for HLG over HDMI, people have tried Roku and DirecTV - Samsung 2016 sets are unable to support it over HDMI

 

 


100% false. I have a Samsung M9500 blu ray player connected to my 2016 Samsung TV, and I can play HLG from the players YouTube app over HDMI, and my TV displays the video in HDR.

 

HLG over HDMI definitely works.


But what about BBC IPLAYER which is what this thread is all about. 

Navigator

But what about BBC IPLAYER which is what this thread is all about. 

Whilst I do agree that the thread is about the iPlayer app that is available via the TV's own apps, its also good to know to what extent HLG is supported. We all want Samsung to ensure it keeps the 'local' (as in those available directly through the TV) apps as up to date as possible and, in particular the iPlayer app as we know that the BBC has a 4k HLG update for iPlayer.

 

What we also want to know though is to what extent Samsung has enabled HLG on these TV's. If we 'have' no choice but to buy an external device with iPlayer or other HLG content, we want to know whether it will work as expected or not. In my testing, I have had no issue with playing HLG demo's - whether they are HEVC or VP9 via USB. I checked again today with the 'LG Jazz HLG demo' HEVC and that worked exactly as expected - the TV switched to HDR mode and played the content in HDR. We know youtube works via the TV app and its great to know that it works via HDMI too. All we need now is confirmation that an external HLG enabled device with HLG iPlayer works via HDMI.

 

Its not 'ideal' as we all would want the built in apps to be updated so we are not forced into buying external devices to get access to HLG content. However, if we are given no choice but to either replace our TV, go without or buy an external device, I would prefer to buy an external device for now. To reiterate, I would prefer Samsung to keep the KS apps up to date but I also want to know if I want or have to buy HLG enabled devices, that they also work properly. If I know HLG works over HDMI for example, I am more hopeful that if SkyQ enables HLG it will work as expected rather than have to move my timetable to replace the KS as my main TV forward. I dont want to buy a HLG enabled device, plug it in and find out it doesn't work - whether that's via USB or HDMI.

 

Ulimately, I hope Samsung do the right thing and support their TV's - especially their 'Premium' range for more than a year. However, I also want to know that if I do decide to buy an external HLG device or SkyQ gets HLG support, that these will also work. The extent of the HLG support is still important information. Like I said, if Samsung don't deliver the support we want and expect, certainly where the local apps are concerned, those of us who haven't pursued replacements or are left with 2016 TV's want to know if we can use alternative devices to gain access to HLG content and to what extent Samsung has enabled HLG on these TV's.

 

As far as I can tell VP9 and HEVC HLG works via USB. VP9 obviously works via both streaming and HDMI (youtube) but as yet we don't know if we could get iPlayer via an allternative device. If I know I can buy an external device to get iPlayer in HLG, whilst not ideal, its still better than nothing. My main viewing is via SkyQ currently and it will still be useful to know that if Sky or other STB adds HLG, that the KS is capable of displaying it.

 

By assessing if HLG works via HDMI, USB etc, regardless of whether its HEVC or VP9 and especially via an external iPlayer app, then we also know that Samsungs 'excuse' regarding the local iPlayer App is BS and that the issue lies exclusively with Samsung and the App itself - whether that's because it is incompatible with the version of Tizen, whether its 'financial' (ie Samsung refusing to pay), a disagreement between Samsung and the BBC or whatever reason, its not because the TV itself can't play HLG but that the app is not being updated.

Voyager

wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

Is the iPlayer issue with the built in BBC app, or with the tv firmware itself?

 

i.e. If Apple TV was to add support for HLG, could the tv then display it?


As per BBC TV firmware cannot support the HLG updated app

As for HLG over HDMI, people have tried Roku and DirecTV - Samsung 2016 sets are unable to support it over HDMI

 

 


100% false. I have a Samsung M9500 blu ray player connected to my 2016 Samsung TV, and I can play HLG from the players YouTube app over HDMI, and my TV displays the video in HDR.

 

HLG over HDMI definitely works.


But what about BBC IPLAYER which is what this thread is all about. 


I do think its useful test but I do agree this thread for Samsung deliver what they promised and a lot of us were influence into buying SK 2016 model:

 

1) Dogngle

2) HDR10+

3) HLG ( Not being able to play HLG through BBC  Iplayer )

Samsung has to fulfil their promises.  Samsung can not make promises to entise people into buying their products and then not deliver.  Samsung are showing no respect to their loyal customers. There  are so many forums / threads like this requesting Samsung to provide a defintive statement. But all we have is a generic answer from Samsung.

Samsung are working on a strategy to ride through this storm and eventually most of the KS owners will give up fighting. 

 

Voyager

I'm sorry to argue the toss but this thread is all about the non availability of HDR HLG using BBC iPlayer.   People fighting for refunds / set replacements know that you can get HLG via YouTube - if not then you shouldn't be on here.   Those people who are arguing about HLG via Hdmi and via external sources should take their discussions to another thread and I've asked Ants to sort this.   Regrettably he doesn't feel the need to do so, the result being that he's playing into Samsung's hands.   Not a single person so far has had any success - Paul's success was not because of the BBC iPlayer issue.

 

Thanks AntS

Explorer

I disagree. The non-availability of the 4k HDR iPlayer version alerted customers to a number of areas where Samsung have failed to keep their products up to date with evolving technolgies. The basic issue is that Samsung appear to have decided that they will not continue to deliver improvements to their pre-2017 models. Many people bought such TV's only a few months ago at considerable cost and had a reasonable expectation that the products would be updated for a few years at least. The mis-selling argument could apply to a number of different features depending on when the TV was purchased and from whom because it is the retailer that has responsibility in UK consumer law. Hence a lot of discussion on this thread about exactly what the adverts said and when. Limiting the discussion to iPlayer will not help people with their claims. iPlayer is just the alarm bell that made people aware of the bigger problem that Samsung appear to have reneged on their promises and, if proven true,  can no longer be trusted.

Helping Hand

wrote:

have not tried HEVC myself but some owbners say below clip cannot enable HLG on Samsung 20176 sets when played via USB

http://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/

 


No idea who would be saying that, but it's simply not the case. That clip has worked fine since we had the "core" HLG firmware upgrade, 1165.1 in Feb 2017. For those who count these things, that's TEN firmwares ago. Very very old news.

 

I see that others have posted since - fine. But obviously, the instances where HLG works is entirely relevant to this discussion. I'm shocked that people are attempting to shut down relevant discussion; it didn't happen for all of December and it should not be happening now. It is only in the last week that some people have suddenly decided they want fewer posts, and a less busy thread. I don't agree with that.

For my part, I have only ever posted to correct false information: just like Samsung keep lying about their promise, retrospectively saying that they only promised a small proportion of HLG support. Similarly, if someone says in this thread that HLG doesn't work from USB when it's been perfect for ten months, then I WILL post here to correct them and I will not accept abuse for not mentioning iPlayer in every post.

 

They are both sins, and I will push back at any attempt to repeat EITHER falsehood in EQUAL measure.

 

So, if you don't want to see people reminding you that HLG works from USB and HDMI, stop posting misinformation and saying that it's "unknown" or "doesn't work full stop". It really is that simple. The situation with USB and HDMI and YouTube hasn't changed for yonks and yonks. It's really easy to check. People shouldn't be demanding videos and an absurd level of proof that USB HLG works, try the clips yourselves. Or, ignore them because it's not an iplayer stream. But please, don't say something doesn't work which does, that only undermines our common cause.

 

 

 

 

Helping Hand

wrote:

But what about BBC IPLAYER which is what this thread is all about. 

Whilst I do agree that the thread is about the iPlayer app that is available via the TV's own apps, its also good to know to what extent HLG is supported. We all want Samsung to ensure it keeps the 'local' (as in those available directly through the TV) apps as up to date as possible and, in particular the iPlayer app as we know that the BBC has a 4k HLG update for iPlayer.

 

What we also want to know though is to what extent Samsung has enabled HLG on these TV's. If we 'have' no choice but to buy an external device with iPlayer or other HLG content, we want to know whether it will work as expected or not. In my testing, I have had no issue with playing HLG demo's - whether they are HEVC or VP9 via USB. I checked again today with the 'LG Jazz HLG demo' HEVC and that worked exactly as expected - the TV switched to HDR mode and played the content in HDR. We know youtube works via the TV app and its great to know that it works via HDMI too. All we need now is confirmation that an external HLG enabled device with HLG iPlayer works via HDMI.

 

Its not 'ideal' as we all would want the built in apps to be updated so we are not forced into buying external devices to get access to HLG content. However, if we are given no choice but to either replace our TV, go without or buy an external device, I would prefer to buy an external device for now. To reiterate, I would prefer Samsung to keep the KS apps up to date but I also want to know if I want or have to buy HLG enabled devices, that they also work properly. If I know HLG works over HDMI for example, I am more hopeful that if SkyQ enables HLG it will work as expected rather than have to move my timetable to replace the KS as my main TV forward. I dont want to buy a HLG enabled device, plug it in and find out it doesn't work - whether that's via USB or HDMI.

 

Ulimately, I hope Samsung do the right thing and support their TV's - especially their 'Premium' range for more than a year. However, I also want to know that if I do decide to buy an external HLG device or SkyQ gets HLG support, that these will also work. The extent of the HLG support is still important information. Like I said, if Samsung don't deliver the support we want and expect, certainly where the local apps are concerned, those of us who haven't pursued replacements or are left with 2016 TV's want to know if we can use alternative devices to gain access to HLG content and to what extent Samsung has enabled HLG on these TV's.

 

As far as I can tell VP9 and HEVC HLG works via USB. VP9 obviously works via both streaming and HDMI (youtube) but as yet we don't know if we could get iPlayer via an allternative device. If I know I can buy an external device to get iPlayer in HLG, whilst not ideal, its still better than nothing. My main viewing is via SkyQ currently and it will still be useful to know that if Sky or other STB adds HLG, that the KS is capable of displaying it.

 

By assessing if HLG works via HDMI, USB etc, regardless of whether its HEVC or VP9 and especially via an external iPlayer app, then we also know that Samsungs 'excuse' regarding the local iPlayer App is BS and that the issue lies exclusively with Samsung and the App itself - whether that's because it is incompatible with the version of Tizen, whether its 'financial' (ie Samsung refusing to pay), a disagreement between Samsung and the BBC or whatever reason, its not because the TV itself can't play HLG but that the app is not being updated.


I agree. Very well said. I hope you don't get the unwarranted abuse that others of us have had recently for daring to talk about HLG via other means. You can't have said more clearly why it is obviously relevant than you have above.

 

 

Hotshot

wrote:

I disagree. The non-availability of the 4k HDR iPlayer version alerted customers to a number of areas where Samsung have failed to keep their products up to date with evolving technolgies. The basic issue is that Samsung appear to have decided that they will not continue to deliver improvements to their pre-2017 models. Many people bought such TV's only a few months ago at considerable cost and had a reasonable expectation that the products would be updated for a few years at least. The mis-selling argument could apply to a number of different features depending on when the TV was purchased and from whom because it is the retailer that has responsibility in UK consumer law. Hence a lot of discussion on this thread about exactly what the adverts said and when. Limiting the discussion to iPlayer will not help people with their claims. iPlayer is just the alarm bell that made people aware of the bigger problem that Samsung appear to have reneged on their promises and, if proven true,  can no longer be trusted.


I agree with you totally, and it seems to me that this thread is being hijacked by some  @Saverio571 and others to try to deflect the main issue. @Saverio571 has been asked more than once if he is an employee of Samsung which has been ignored (which I seriously suspects he her is), and regrettably seems to be protected by the mods here, even though he her is totally off the thread. 

This thread is about Samsungs promises of BBC Iplayer HLG, HDR10+ and the so called free smart connect dongle which Samsung have admitted, will not be given.  All this about HLG HDMI VP9 HEVC leaves me, and I think others confused about the issue, and we must focus on what this thread is all about. Samsung have said they have no plans to implement BBC Iplayer HLG and 4K it to their 2015 2016 sets, full stop as some one else has said........

I think another thread may be needed going something like,

 

KS Refund due to no Iplayer HLG, HDR10+ and smart connect donngle for Samsung 2015 and 2016 JS and KS models.

 

Lets get back to topic that we have been going is to try to get refunds for TV's that were miss sold by Samsung. It seems the smart connect which was advertised strongly by Samsung and the main retailers and that was withdrawn by Samsung so if that influenced you decision to by then you have every right to claim a refund due to misrepresentation. That is what the Oct 2015 European Consumer Regs are for and when you contact Citizens advice they are on the ball with regs. You also have 1974 Consumer Credit Act Section 75, just by paying the deposit or the full amount. You also have charge back within the first 6 months with a debit card. Ignore some of these post's as some here are getting close to a result, and I know Paul1277 got his result but he had to work for it and it took a fair amount of time to get there. Please ignore certain posts that seem to glorify Samsung as doing nothing wrong because reading between the lines it's obvious who is paying their wages.

I know I may get so heat from this, but I have not used any bad language, but yes I have been critical, and that is free speech.

 

 

Highlighted
Apprentice

 HLG over HDMI definitely works.


100% false. I have a Samsung M9500 blu ray player connected to my 2016 Samsung TV, and I can play HLG from the players YouTube app over HDMI, and my TV displays the video in HDR.

Could this be the M9500 decoding/re-encoding the HLG stream into HDR10 instead of sending HLG over HDMI?

 

Helping Hand

wrote:

 HLG over HDMI definitely works.


100% false. I have a Samsung M9500 blu ray player connected to my 2016 Samsung TV, and I can play HLG from the players YouTube app over HDMI, and my TV displays the video in HDR.

Could this be the M9500 decoding/re-encoding the HLG stream into HDR10 instead of sending HLG over HDMI?

 


Extremely unlikely! The BBC created Planet Earth 2 in HLG, but the 4k Blu-Ray is of course HDR10. To convert that and re-grade it for HDR10 isn't a real-time process, and requires broadcast-quality equipment.

 

It would be helpful if Samsung improved the UI of the TV to make it clearer which flavour of HDR the TV is receiving (HDR10, HLG, HDR10Plus) but so far they haven't done this.

 

EDIT: Easy to check. Connect the M9500 to a better TV which does display the info correctly.

 

EDIT2: Definitely not. don't know why I didn't think of this 5 minutes ago. HLG doesn't use metadata. HDR10 needs metadata. The only way to generate the metadata is to examine every frame of video, and then at the end, you can determine the metadata values.

This is why live HDR10 isn't possible, and it's why HLG is going to be used for live broadcasting.

It's also why it can't be what the player is doing.

So, its playing HLG over HDMI.

 

HTH

 

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