Re: KS Owners refund - Page 93

paul1277 · ‎24-12-2017

Do all you good people who bought a 2016 Samsung TV know Samsung have stopped supporting it. The promised they would support HLG (BBC Iplayer HDR). This was in the Dec 2016 Trusted Reviews and What Hi Fi. They have not and if you had bought a Panasonic or LG 2016 set you would be able to watch Iplayer Blue Planet 2 in glorious HLG. This is a big issue because HLG looks like the standard for all over the air broadcasting. Samsung are not even supporting a 4K update to Iplayer. The reason looks like it will cost just 5 cents or pence per unit. So my telly I bought in Jan 2017 is deemed as out of date by Samsung!!!!!!

You wrote in your Dec 2016 issue that Samsung were supporting HLG in their 2016 models. Do you know that Samsung have supported their 2017 models but not the 2016 models. I know because the BBC IPlayer Blue Planet 2 will not play in 4K or HLG. It's not good considering Panasonic and LG both do support their 2016 models. It means my KS model I bought in Jan is now deemed out of date by Samsung. It looks like their are royalty fees which Samsung will not pay! Not good.

All you people in the UK can return your KS TVs IF you bought it for the use of the smartthings Extend that will never be coming out for our TVs. ***** is how.

Tell them you want a full refund because they promised that if you bought a KS TV you would get a FREE Smartthings Extend. They proof you will need is easy to find and is the reason you bought this TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMc3V98yzNY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRSWoUmU5YQ

I bought mine from J Lewis and the Samsung Extend addvert is still there https://www.johnlewis.com/electricals/samsung/smart-tv/c9601000048?rdr=1

If you bought your KS TV from currys http://techtalk.currys.co.uk/tv-gaming/tv/how-to-control-your-home-from-your-smart-tv/

They both say that you will get a free smartthings extend USB dongle.

Now send you TVs back for a full refund Smiley Happy

All those who bought a Samsung TV in 2016 may have claim for miss selling. It basically means that all you folks who bought the 2016 Samsung units have 2 choices. After Dec 2016 and if you had seen any articles that are press release's about HLG support and that influenced you decision to buy may have a case. For all those owners who read the info from the retailers on their web pages and saw and was influenced by the promise of the smart connect which has not been honoured, then you also have a case for miss selling. If you all spread this in all available media then I am sure the retailers would put pressure on to Samsung to correct this. If nothing else you could end up with nice shiny LG or Panasonic, or the new Philips that all are HLG BBC iplayer compatible, and with the HDR10 plus that again Samsung have still not implemented, you may be best with LG and Dolby Vision.

Also take a copy of the retailers web page before they change the description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRSWoUmU5YQ

I will try to explain how to get a refund for miss selling (seen how much the LG's have come down). I followed this way and got a full refund or a JS8000.

You need to show that you asked or believed that or influenced by claims made about the capabilities of the TV. With BBC Iplayer HLG it's from the Trusted reviews and What Hi Fi, and any other publications and if you asked the retailer.

https://www.whathifi.com/advice/hdr-tv-what-it-how-can-you-get-it#6locceZo3Zf8yi5T.99

you can show you had been informed.

It's different with the smart connect as that is advertised on the main retailers web sites,

https://www.johnlewis.com/electricals/samsung/smart-tv/c9601000048?rdr=1
http://techtalk.currys.co.uk/tv-gaming/tv/how-to-control-your-home-from-your-smart-tv/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRSWoUmU5YQ

As the donngle's have not turned up you now claim miss selling, so either go to your retailer or email them with the web page, and explain why you think you were miss sold. Also phone Citizens Advice 03444 111 444 and raise a case (this also gets past on to Trading Standards). Explain that the retailer informed you off the capabilities via their web page information, and either show the page printer or the link, as above.

They will advise and link you to some template letters to send to your retailer.

I had to send a letter of intent to take legal action (template from Citizens Advice) against Curry's but then they gave me a refund.

So mention all the promises from Samsung full support for HLG, Smart Connect, and HDR10+

It will cost nothing to ask and again may bring some pressure on to Samsung.

paul1277 · ‎26-06-2018

@Present_tense wrote:
Been following the thread and trying to get the refund we all feel entitled too, and hitting some of the same brick walls. Samsung have offered the smartthing hub as a ‘gesture of good will’, whereas Currys are refusing to acknowledge the mis-selling of the TV and the smartthings extend they advertised. They claim that as I’ve had the TV for over a year that they will not look into my case further. Has anyone got any further advice or more luck? Kicking myself for not giving richer sounds my custom as I had in the past!

Hi if you bought using credit card then you can try the section for the section 75 route. It does look like curry's are calling everyone's bluff and I think are hoping no one takes them to court. Taking them to court is quite easy and can be done online. We have had an ADR confirmation that this is misrepresentation which is posted on this thread, which does agree with what we are saying. Richer sounds only started paying up when the ADR went against them and the same may need to happen with curry's. They are not members of ADR and that is why you are left with section 75 or county court.

Paul

tarbat · ‎26-06-2018

A quick question about the John Lewis situation. I've reached the end of the line with them, and they tell me that "John Lewis deal with complaints internally and do not accept an outcome from any ADR service". They now refer every one of my points to Samsung, saying that only Samsung can deal with this now. Obviously not true, but I guess if Samsung are unwilling to accept the TV back from the retailer, I can see JL's problem. They're not even willing to provide a non-touchscreen Android phone so my wife can actually operate the SmartThings hub!!

Anyway, my question. Is there any point pursuing ADR via. the EU's ODR process? I'm thinking that it's probably worth going through the process just to show the courts that I've tried every option. But am I just wasting my time, and maybe should go straight to court? Time is not that important to me, I've been without the SmartThings functionality for nearly two years so a few more months is neither here nor there.

Last time I had to go to court (about a DVD recorder from Techtronics) I found the process pretty straightforward.

billinghamn · ‎26-06-2018

Interesting point re JL and ADR. Do a Google search for ADR "john Lewis". You get a link to aJohn Lewis Customer Complaints web page. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find a section on Alternative Dispute Resolution, with a link to what looks like an EU online ADR process!

Tannoy20 · ‎26-06-2018

I think it's worth trying the process to prove youve tried everything, but my current experience is that theyve completely ignored it (not even acknowledged it). Just waiting for the 30 days to pass so they've had the full available time to reply.

tarbat · ‎26-06-2018

@billinghamn wrote:
Interesting point re JL and ADR. Do a Google search for ADR "john Lewis". You get a link to aJohn Lewis Customer Complaints web page. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find a section on Alternative Dispute Resolution, with a link to what looks like an EU online ADR process!

Yes. And in fact John Lewis told me this in their email - to quote "John Lewis deal with complaints internally and do not accept an outcome from any ADR service. We do make reference to an alternative dispute resolution on our website, however as I am within the highest point of escalation for John Lewis this would be forwarded back to me to resolve. We operate under both English and Scottish legal jurisdiction."

I'm guessing all that John Lewis would do is refuse to agree a dispute resolution body.

I'm holding off for the moment as I've had a last minute response from Samsung with a promise to get back to me within 48 hours, so I'd like to give Samsung the opportunity to do the right thing here.

paul1277 · ‎26-06-2018

@billinghamn wrote:
Interesting point re JL and ADR. Do a Google search for ADR "john Lewis". You get a link to aJohn Lewis Customer Complaints web page. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find a section on Alternative Dispute Resolution, with a link to what looks like an EU online ADR process!

Thanks that's a .great bit of info for all the JS owners who are struggling with them

Paul

paul1277 · ‎26-06-2018

@tarbat wrote:
A quick question about the John Lewis situation. I've reached the end of the line with them, and they tell me that "John Lewis deal with complaints internally and do not accept an outcome from any ADR service". They now refer every one of my points to Samsung, saying that only Samsung can deal with this now. Obviously not true, but I guess if Samsung are unwilling to accept the TV back from the retailer, I can see JL's problem. They're not even willing to provide a non-touchscreen Android phone so my wife can actually operate the SmartThings hub!!

Anyway, my question. Is there any point pursuing ADR via. the EU's ODR process? I'm thinking that it's probably worth going through the process just to show the courts that I've tried every option. But am I just wasting my time, and maybe should go straight to court? Time is not that important to me, I've been without the SmartThings functionality for nearly two years so a few more months is neither here nor there.

Last time I had to go to court (about a DVD recorder from Techtronics) I found the process pretty straightforward.

It will do no harm and it as been said that you can say you have tried being reasonable and using all avenues to rectify this. I think it will only help and as long as ADR in in your favor it is more ammo. Again quote the ref number of the result posted here some days back.

Paul

paul1277 · ‎26-06-2018

@tarbat wrote:
@billinghamn wrote:
Interesting point re JL and ADR. Do a Google search for ADR "john Lewis". You get a link to aJohn Lewis Customer Complaints web page. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find a section on Alternative Dispute Resolution, with a link to what looks like an EU online ADR process!
Yes. And in fact John Lewis told me this in their email - to quote "John Lewis deal with complaints internally and do not accept an outcome from any ADR service. We do make reference to an alternative dispute resolution on our website, however as I am within the highest point of escalation for John Lewis this would be forwarded back to me to resolve. We operate under both English and Scottish legal jurisdiction."

I'm guessing all that John Lewis would do is refuse to agree a dispute resolution body.

I'm holding off for the moment as I've had a last minute response from Samsung with a promise to get back to me within 48 hours, so I'd like to give Samsung the opportunity to do the right thing here.

I think as the ADR costs nothing and even if jl refuses to except the outcome I think it would give a strong incentive for them to settle before court, and if you were to present it to court I am sure it would be in the context of expert opinion and certainly as evidence in you favor.

Paul

Tell · ‎26-06-2018

There seem a lot of people in this thread who are 'uncertain' how they should proceed, this is understandable as you're operating in an area outside your comfort zone.

The following is just some general advice that people should try to stick to and the reasons why.

1. Try not to do things by telephone, wherever possible do it by written format. While this will take longer it means you have a full record trail that is usable in court. Anything said on the phone isn't worth the paper it's not written on. If you MUST have a phone call record the call yourself and IMMEDIATELY afterwards write a contemporaneous note detailing everything that was said and email it together with the recording to yourself. You may well think that this is all work for no reason, but let me assure you the courts rely on provable evidence not what you think was said and something you've emailed to yourself have verifiable timestamps that the other side would find impossible to challenge.

2. You may well get frustrated and annoyed at the other sides behaviour, understand this is exactly what they want you to do. Spend a little time trying to understand Game Theory (and it's a very extensive subject area). In any game where the 'rules' of the game are clearly defined people have a tendency to set 'goal expectations' with the associated physical excitement that goes with expectation, they then get deflated when those goals aren't met....if this is repeated then the adrenaline one player generates starts to become a negative, as instead of becoming excited about a positive result you become 'trained' to expect a bad result and as a consequence 'give up' as the emotional toll wears you down.

3. You CANNOT control the other sides behaviour in any way, nor can you control the timescale to win. So if you're not willing to dig in to the end, then at the beginning clearly define to yourself how much time you're willing to invest pursuing this, now double it, now double it again and you're probably now looking at how much time it'll take....if you don't want to play that long game then honestly you'd be better cutting your losses now.

4. Do NOT make the mistake of thinking this is you against them, it's not. This is purely commercial and everyone of us on this board should have known going in that Samsung have a history of abandonware policies when it comes to a lot of their products, phones and tablets immediately spring to mind but there are others. You're not battling an individual, you're dealing with a bureaucracy and you have to deal with a second bureaucracy (the legal system) to get the resolution you desire. When dealing with any bureaucracy you have to be dispassionate, factual and patient, it's the only way to win, the 'passionate lawyer' plays great in the movies, but not in the courts.

I say the above based on some experience, companies are playing to a different objective and 'knock' some claimants off as people get pi**ed off with the drudgery of it all (late filings, nonsensical claims, all the usual bo**ocks companies try when they know they're in the wrong and can only win by wearing the opposition down).

One case I was involved with a few years back with a well known PC manufacturer they dragged out for 17 months and 8 different reply filings (which were all bogus), the claim was only for £2k, but they knew if they lost it could open the floodgates, so they fought tooth and nail and every offer they made included a NDA gag that I wouldn't agree to. They finally settled for the full amount of the claim and my time on the courtroom steps, they knew they couldn't afford to lose in the court and I knew it as well....so their tactic was to try to wear me down.

So understand going in:-

The law is a game, not of right and wrong, but perseverance and boredom.

paul1277 · ‎27-06-2018

@Tell wrote:
There seem a lot of people in this thread who are 'uncertain' how they should proceed, this is understandable as you're operating in an area outside your comfort zone.

Thanks for that info and I hopeithelps people understand the process more.
Paul