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KS Owners Refund usefull info

Hotshot

I thought it might be useful just to have this thread with all the useful links, reference numbers but not for discussion. Letters sent and received yes please and any info to help people make their case.

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Helping Hand

Here's a dump of the notes and links I made the other day, largely sourced from the other thread. HTH.

 

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/highlight/false/page...

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

Any returns policy that says I have to cover the cost of returning items must only relate to the situation where I change my mind about the item ordered and not where there is a problem with the item.

I should not lose out financially as a result of your breach of contract and accordingly all costs of returning the item should be met by you.

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https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Section 50 is new
https://www.which.co.uk/tools/faulty-goods-complaint-tool/
Extracts from the Regs

a short term Right to Reject within 30 days (as opposed to the current "reasonable period") (and claim a full refund), which if not exercised leads onto
the Right to Repair or Replacement and if this isn't satisfactory then
the Right to a Price Reduction or a final Right to Reject (and claim a refund) (after only one attempt at repair or replacement by the trader – one attempt is enough for the consumer to have this right) – where the goods are rejected after the first six months then the trader can reduce any refund by a "deduction for use"; during the first six months any deduction for use is limited to motor vehicles or other goods the Secretary of State may specify in the future.
Every services contract will include as a contractual term pre-contractual statements or information about the services if these are taken into account by the consumer when deciding to enter into the contract or are taken into account by the consumer when making any decision about the service after entering into the contract – however such statements or information can be qualified by the trader or changed (if agreed to by the consumer). Information provided under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 will also be a term of the contract. Note that this provision (section 50) is new and section 50 gives consumers additional protection – traders are going to need to consider what information they provide to consumers to encourage them to contract for services and whether this needs to be qualified in any way – advertising, marketing materials etc will all need to be carefully reviewed. Where this provision is breached by the trader the same rules apply as to whether these terms can be limited or excluded as apply to section 49. (section 50).
If the time for performance is not fixed by contract then the trader must perform the contract within a reasonable time. Where this provision is breached by the trader the same rules apply as to whether these terms can be limited or excluded as apply to section 49. (section 52). (i.e. updates or smart connect)

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https://web.archive.org/web/20160714023725/http://www.richersounds.com:80/product/tv---all/samsung/u...

Richer Sounds text:
Samsung SUHD TVs are IOT ready and allow you to create your very own SmartThings ecosystem
Experience a new world of possibilities as Samsung's SUHD TVs enable you to create your very own SmartThings ecosystem. With a wide variety of sensors and inputs work harmoniously with your TV you can control everything from lighting to heating, monitor your baby sleeping or check homework is being done all directly controllable from your SUHD TV.
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https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/32

As you can clearly see here (https://web.archive.org/web/20161130190102/https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-reveals-entire-20...), in a press release Samsung released on the Samsung Newsroom (news.samsung.com) on December 29 2015 (but has since then been taken down), Samsung state that its entire 2016 smart TV line-up will be Internet of Things ready and all TVs will apply IoT hub technology, allowing the TV itself to act as the controller for the entire smart home. This is a crucial part, as the function to have the TV as the hub and center of the smart home cannot be acquired with the standalone SmartThings Hub you linked to in your previous response. It only allows the hub to connect to the TV and gives you the option to control the TV with the SmartThings mobile app. I can not change the lighting, check the smart front door camera or use any other advertised smart features straight from the TV’s interface like promised. Here you can see the specific functions that are missing from your solution: https://youtu.be/KPhLa2ddWFY.

 

This was also specially addressed by Samsung Electronics America President & COO, Tim Baxter, at CES 2016. He starts talking about the SmartThings Extend USB adapter at the 3:55 mark on this video, https://youtu.be/bqkZw6NY3K8?t=3m55s.

 

It is crystal clear that there is no way to deliver this function Tim Baxter talks about, which was promised and described in the Samsung press release, now that the SmartThings Extend hub has been discontinued, so don’t bother trying to sell me on the idea that a separate SmartThings hub will give me this functionality.

 

As I mentioned in my previous email the CEO’s office of Samsung UK has already confirmed and admitted misrepresentation and false advertising which is a clear breach of the Oct 2015 European Consumer regs. and counts as a miss-selling, which means buyers are entitled to full refund or a replacement.


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https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/53

Ramos049 Explorer
3 weeks ago
Sorry for the delay in updating everyone with my progress with Richer Sounds but I ended up taking my complaint to Retail ADR and I was not allowed to discuss it on public forums but I have just had the recommendation through from them and it is good news. They have agreed that it is a clear act of misrepresentation and that I am entitled to a FULL REFUND. So, if you have bought it from Richer Sounds do not accept anything less. Also if you are exchanging it for another TV you could probably get something that cost a little bit more than what your Samsung cost as it would work out cheaper for them to do that than give you a full cash refund. The good thing about Retail ADR is that Richer Sounds are bound by their decision but unfortunately I believe that is not the case with John Lewis or Currys. However, you can still take it to Retail ADR and if they do disregard their decision you can then use it as evidence in the small claims court and you would have an extremely strong case. It has taken two months for it to go through Retail ADR but I'm glad I did, as we all now know that the least they should be offering is a full refund.

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https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/60
@Frazzler wrote:
I have my exchange arranged for tomorrow, they deliver a brand new 55” LG B7 which supports HLG & DV and take away my 49” KS8000 which doesn’t, all in a single visit scheduled within a 3hr window. I told them I didn’t have the Samsung box and they will bring one with them.

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/64
[Mine is delivered by bjshomedeliveries, not DPD]

 

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/68
Ramos049 Explorer
2 weeks ago
Another update with my complaint with Richer Sounds. They are refusing to collect my TV or cover the costs for returning it. I have got a feeling that it is getting a bit personal with me as other people have had their TVs collected. Have contacted Retail ADR and informed them that I will refuse the recommendation if Richer Sounds do not cover the costs for returning the item and take the complaint to the adjudicator to have it added in.

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/72
Ask them why richer sounds are giving refunds and show them the following link,
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wchOMdwsbyzfMV4dbYBvh0wxDkkn9Z_z/view

which is ADR ruling against richer sounds

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/78

CharlesCC First Poster
Thursday
I had the KS8000 from Richersounds. Followed the advice and within 6hrs Richersounds apologised acknowledged and offered me a credit to the original price £1449

On top of that they even let me use online codes to discount the new OLED i bought.

Well played RS highly impressed. They said samsung were refunding them.

 

Hotshot
As promised a sample letter



Insert date

Reference: Insert name / John Lewis – Samsung insert model number e.g. ue55ks8000

Dear Sir or Madam,



I am writing to you to with regards to the mis-selling of the Samsung UE49KS7000 TV. I bought the set, in insert month and year for £xxxx, under the belief that the TV would be suitable for controlling SmartThings devices with the inclusion of a SmartThings Extend USB adapter. This was due to advertising on your website, which was presented in two different locations; the first as a general Samsung information page for their 2016 SUHD TVs from the following link:



https://www.johnlewis.com/electricals/samsung/smart-tv/c9601000048?rdr=1 (link no longer works as the advert has since been removed)



and the second on the device product page, which is still available online and can be accessed by the link below:



INSERT WEBLINK TO THE SPECIFIC WEBPAGE FOR YOUR TV MODEL – This is accessible from google, just type in John Lewis Samsung and your tv model and it should show you the page, check that it does have the Smartthings extend description.



Given the time of the purchase (Insert month and year), the purchase is covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which became law on 1st October 2015, which replaced three major pieces of consumer legislation - the ‘Sale of Goods Act’, ‘Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations’, and the ‘Supply of Goods and Services Act’. Under this new act, all products must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. ‘As described’ means that the goods supplied must match any description, or any models or samples shown at the time of purchase.



From the link above, you included the following text for advertising the TV:



“Control Your Connected Home With SmartThings Extend.

Developed alongside SmartThings, Samsung’s SUHD TV will have built-in software to let you do anything from switching on your lights to locking your doors**. It will connect to over 200 SmartThings compatible devices and put your home under complete wireless control – all from your TV.”



Where the footnote states:



“**With free Samsung SmartThings Extend USB adapter available within 2016.”



Samsung have only recently announced that these SmartThings Extend USB devices will not be made available for owners of the KS range of TVs, which means that the TV does not and will never have the functionality as identified above, as detailed in your adverts. As such, the TV you have supplied is not as described as per your advertising. It is noted that the Consumer Rights Act is applicable for a period of up to 6 years following the purchase for cases of mis-representation, as identified in Item 105 within the commentary for Section 1, which states:



”Under the law of England and Wales and of Northern Ireland, claims for breach of contract are subject to a limitation period of six years from the date of the breach of contract…….. Because the protections provided under this Part of the Act operate on the basis of contract law, the consumer has 6 years within which they may pursue remedies for breach of one of the statutory rights.”



Whilst you may have used information provided by the manufacturer (Samsung), it is your duty to ensure that the information you provide to the consumer is accurate, as this information was used as a basis by me (the consumer) for entering the contract of sale with you (the trader).



As you are in breach of contract, and repair and / or replacement will not resolve the issue, i.e. item not as described as opposed to faulty, then I am within my statutory rights to ask for a full refund of the original cost paid.



As further evidence for the case of misrepresentation for the sale of Samsung KS TVs which advertised the SmartThings Extend device and SmartThings control capability of the TV, it is noted that Retail ADR have recently been involved in a case between a Samsung KS TV owner and Richer Sounds and have agreed that there was a clear case of misrepresentation by the retailer based upon the retailers adverts on their website. Their website, like yours, stated that the TV would be provided with the SmartThings Extend device and that the TV could be used to control SmartThings devices.



I await confirmation that you will provide the remedy set out above within 14 days of the date of this letter.



Yours faithfully



INSERT NAME
Hotshot
This John Lewis admitting misrepresentation
John Lewis have already admitted the mis-selling, but just won't do anything about it. They've already said:

"When you purchased your television, it was advertised it would soon be updated with the SmartThings functionality and, that the USB dongle would be provided to enable this. As you are aware Samsung did not proceed with this and I can appreciate this was very disappointing. Whilst John Lewis only advertised this feature based on the information provided by Samsung, we do acknowledge this information was in our product description. We’ve been in contact with Samsung and the solution available is to provide the SmartThings Hub. We are aware it does not provide exactly the same functionality as the USB dongle would have, we do trust it is a reasonable alternative."
Explorer

I bought my 49KS8000 over 12 months ago from Richer Sounds and I’ve now exchanged it for an LG OLED B7. All I did was call Richer Sounds Customer Service pressed the digits for Samsung TVs over 12 months old and got through to Paul. I asked where my dongle was and he immediately told me Samsung weren’t honouring it. I asked him what he intended to do to remedy the situation and he immediately offered an exchange, initially with some devaluation but when he got back to me in 2 days he offered the full amount. No paperwork required.

Helping Hand

[want to del but can't]

 

 

Hotshot

@mrtickle wrote:

@Frazzler wrote:

I bought my 49KS8000 over 12 months ago from Richer Sounds and I’ve now exchanged it for an LG OLED B7. All I did was call Richer Sounds Customer Service pressed the digits for Samsung TVs over 12 months old and got through to Paul. I asked where my dongle was and he immediately told me Samsung weren’t honouring it. I asked him what he intended to do to remedy the situation and he immediately offered an exchange, initially with some devaluation but when he got back to me in 2 days he offered the full amount. No paperwork required.


Wow. They have a dedicated menu in their phone system for this?

 


Results like that could do with going on the KS Refunds thread

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/TV-Audio-Video/KS-Owners-refund/td-p/358805/page/105

 

I think we need to keep this clear so only useful info goes here so it does not get overwhelming.

Thanks

Explorer
When you contact Customer Service their automated voice system asks you what product you are calling about, which manufacturer and whether you bought in the last 12 months or older (mine was over 12 months) then I got through to Paul. Obviously I explained which model I bought and then asked when my dongle would arrive as I had been promised it would be sent on. Bingo. They only have a few people on that support line, so try and ask for Paul.
Hotshot
This is very useful,

To anyone having issues with JL i have posted by below mails that got the ball rolling on my refund.



1st one



Hi



On xx xxx 20xx i purchased a new Samsung UExxKSxx00 under order xxxxxxxx after researching on the TV's available at the time and a long time Panasonic consumer, i decided to go for a the Samsung.



Of the 4K TV's that were around at the time, the specs were not vastly different, however what intrigued me about the Samsung was the built-in smart things ability to control smart devices around the home, without having to control them via another smart device like an amazon alexa. As other TV's at the time did not offer this ability, this is what influenced my decision to purchase this TV.



The page advertising the USB smart things dongle that would enable this feature was advertised on your site, however the link has subsequently and understandably for a 2016 TV been removed, however the page for the TV is still there and is below URL

Google your model along with keywords john lewis to find your page



Which states

Control Your Connected Home With SmartThings Extend
Developed alongside SmartThings, Samsung’s SUHD TV will have built-in software to let you do anything from switching on your lights to locking your doors**. It will connect to over 200 SmartThings compatible devices and put your home under complete wireless control – all from your TV. This way, you’ll be able to set the right scene in your living room without getting off the sofa. Please note that this feature is coming soon.



The delivery of the promised USB dongle (not an App) to enable this feature was then announced in early 2018 as no longer being delivered by Samsung, which goes back on an advertised feature of the TV, on which my purchased was based on, and is now a clear case of miss-selling.



As a further example of Samsung miss-selling this TV was brought up to the Retail ADR, in a case against Richer Sounds and it was found that Samsung was indeed in breech of the “Consumer Rights Act 2015”, of which a copy of the outcome can be found here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wchOMdwsbyzfMV4dbYBvh0wxDkkn9Z_z

"In conclusion Based on the evidence provided and after conducting our own online investigation, we agree that this is a clear case of misrepresentation."





Taking into account that the delivery of this feature is now never going to be reality, i feel that i have been misled into purchasing a TV that will never be able to do what was intended, and is in breech of miss-selling, as i would have probably been watching a Panasonic TV for the last year had it not been for being misguided by Samsung, however as the retailer, i am bound to take up my case with yourselves.



As a result of all the above, I would appreciate it if you can contact me on my phone, or mail me back by reply to this mail to discuss a refund or as a John Lewis fan, i am willing to discuss an exchange as i understand that this is not your fault, and that both John Lewis and myself have been misled by Samsung.



Thanks



2nd mail after inital reply about it being a "free promotional item" that i should contact samsung for.



Hi xxxx



Thanks for coming back to me so quickly. The issue here is that the missing feature was not a promotional item like a free DVD, but an advertised feature native of the product. It was announced to much fan fare that all 2016 KS range TV's would feature this, see below links and their press release announcement in RED

Samsung CEO himself announcing it on stage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkZw6NY3K8&feature=youtu.be&t=3m55s

https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/29/10682704/smartthings-hub-tvs-samsung-suhd

https://www.engadget.com/2015/12/29/samsung-smartthings-hub-smart-tvs-ces2016/?guccounter=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpRxjGeRsos

Among the 2016 Smart TVs, all Samsung’s 2016 SUHD TVs will apply IoT hub technology, allowing the TV itself to act as the controller for the entire smart home. Samsung developed its own IoT hub technology with SmartThings for 2016 SUHD TVs.

SUHD TVs can connect with and control Samsung devices and SmartThings sensors, as well as more than 200 other SmartThings compatible devices. These include everything from connected lights and locks to thermostats and cameras, from a wide range of high quality third party manufacturers. For the full support of connectivity with SmartThings compatible devices, SmartThings Extend USB adaptor is required.

At CES 2016, Samsung will showcase the future of TV and demonstrate how Samsung’s Smart TVs are at the center of the expanding IoT ecosystem.



As this feature was announced as a function native to the TV and then subsequently dropped after over 18 months, this is now something that the TV will never be able to achieve despite it being advertised as being able to do so. The consumer rights act 2015 protects against this under "As described"

As described The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.

As the TV no longer matches the advertised features, and still advertised on your website, this is in breech of this section of the sale of goods act, under the Consumer Rights Act

Looking at your own product description, thats still on the website, the feature is listed under the Product description, and not as a promotional add on product like a free DVD disk etc... had it been part of a "buy this TV and get a free DVD disk" type promotion, then id agree that id have to take this up with samsung, however as this was not a promotional product, but an advertised aspect of the TV, and as the seller my contract of sale is without yourselves and not samsung.

Thanks



Hope that might help some people...

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