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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

Voyager

Yes, I agree, I think it's terrible that it took so long to sort out the Netfilx app and that they can't be relied upon to honour or acknowledge their promises. Samsung went through a bit of a ***** year last year with their exploding phones so I expect they're now erring on the side of caution concerning this matter. Of course that doesn't win many favours from me.

Big Cheese

@crashcris wrote:

Yes, I agree, I think it's terrible that it took so long to sort out the Netfilx app and that they can't be relied upon to honour or acknowledge their promises. Samsung went through a bit of a ***** year last year with their exploding phones so I expect they're now erring on the side of caution concerning this matter. Of course that doesn't win many favours from me.


And this is what I can not understand. Samung design and manufacture their own TV's with a massive budget and are not resellers. They should know the insides of their TV's and there marketing should have the very latest information and correct information. I may be sceptical but they seem to male claims about their capabilities hoping that they can use a software update to make on their promises (Netflix on JS models). It also seems that these claims are made at trade fairs to allow for deniability. To say they will support HLG fully and then not be able to support the only broadcaster, is just like with your JS, when the first and only HDR10 broadcaster was Netflix, and it did not support. 

 

Paul

Voyager

It's so so bad that this isn't working for 2016 or 2017 models. i bought my ks8000 in december last year because it was future proofed against HDR standards including HLG. Samsung you just lost all my custom of any of your products. i have been getting your galaxy phones since they came out and my tvs from you for the last 15 years or so, you just lost me over this. £1500 quid tv that wont playback HDR that you promised it would be able to. Shocking behaviour.

Big Cheese

@amokuk wrote:

It's so so bad that this isn't working for 2016 or 2017 models. i bought my ks8000 in December last year because it was future proofed against HDR standards including HLG. Samsung you just lost all my custom of any of your products. i have been getting your galaxy phones since they came out and my tvs from you for the last 15 years or so, you just lost me over this. £1500 quid tv that wont playback HDR that you promised it would be able to. Shocking behaviour.


And what makes it so bad is they are denying they ever said that their 2016 TV's would support Iplayer HLG, which just happens to be the only broadcaster with plans on using it. This is what Trusted Reveiws said last December

"HLG is currently included in the ITU-R BT.2100 specification for programme production and exchange. It’s expected to be ratified into the DVB specification before the end of the year, at which point broadcasters and screen manufacturers can begin to firm up road maps. But where does that leave TV buyers in the meantime. Can you expect 4K screens bought today to be firmware updated? 

We put out a call. Understandably, currently TV manufacturers have little to say on the subject as yet. Only Samsung, out of all those polled, maintained that all its UHD HDR 2016 models could be firmware updated to support HLG. “All of Samsung’s 2016 HDR TVs will be firmware upgradeable to support Hybrid Log-Gamma broadcast HDR once it is widely available,” we were told emphatically."

 

I suppose the get out clause is when it is widely available, but then they tell me

"

In regard to your concern, Samsung doesn't formally filed any statement to any forums which include trusted reviews or any website that all 2016 UHD HDR TV will support HLG broadcast.  We were solely informed that no other legacy UHD TV’s are included. This service will not appear on 2014,15 or 16 models (HU, JU, JS, KU or KS). We are working closely with the BBC to enable our 2017 Samsung UHD models (MU & QE) only to access the service."

Like I said it was in the Dec 2016 edition and What Hi Fi in June 2017 also saying that Samsung would be fully supporting HLG. So were these publications mis leading us? I  think BBC I player caught Samsung out by doing this test far sooner that they thought. 

 

 So yes where does that leave us. I spent over £3000 on the 65KS9500, thinking it would be future proof! There maybe one way and that is to ask the retailer for a refund for miss selling.

Paul

Navigator

I too have a 2016 KS8000 TV (EU model) and am very disappointed that my TV - despite Samsung saying they will add HLG support, can't play HLG via iPlayer. In 2 separate occasions, we have been lied to by Samsung staff when asking for 'help'. 1 stated that only HDR1000+ TV's will be able to support HLG via iPlayer. However when I stated these numbers are nothing but PR speak and that the KS series were listed as HDR1000 - the same as the MU series that are getting it - they basically fobbed off that and said they would forward it to their tech department.

 

Another friend who spoke to Samsung stated that HLG support for Broadcast content is added but that is different from the HLG format that iPlayer uses. The fact that youtube - another on demend service - has HLG support via its app contradicts this too. HLG, whether its via on-demand or broadcast uses the same method. I really can't see BBC using a different HLG for on-demand that it will for broadcasting. The same HLG broadcast content will no dobt be the same when its uploaded to iPlayer. I bet if you were to use an external device (like Roku for example) that has iPlayer and HLG support, you could watch the Blue Planet 2 in HLG. Therefore this is yet another BS answer from Samsung.

 

As far as I see it, the iPlayer app is all that needs updating to support HLG as the KS series already supports HLG - look at the HLG demo's on youtube. Therefore Samsung are giving us BS reasons why - instead of stating that they would rather you buy a 'new' TV than to support their 'older' TV's. Chances are, that if I were to buy a new TV, it certainly wouldn't be Samsung - not when the LG OLEDs are as cheap as a Q series, (certainly wouldn'y by an MU and have a 'big' downgrade on HDR performance), offer HLG via iPlayer - even on 2016 models, as well as Dolby Vision. They also have the same input lag for gaming and a HDR game mode that it automatically switches to for HDR games. Not only do they offer a 'perfect' picture and perfect blacks thanks to self emitting technology - no bleed/haloing etc that backlit TV's suffer from, they are superior in support and options - even for earlier models.

 

I have owned a Samsung TV for the last 10yrs or so (as well as other brands as I do have multiple TV's) but the last couple of years, I have been disappointed by Samsung, their quality and quality control, their support and customer service. This is just another nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned and certainly having a negative impact as far as purchasing a Samsung product in the future. I know we are in a state of flux at the moment with HDR and its various formats, as well as the iminent launch of HDMI 2.1 but you don't expect a TV to support HLG but not from certain apps. What next? the TV will support HDR10+ but only on the Amazon App because all other souces are not using the same HDR10+? 

Voyager

Hi

 

I don't think the issue is with the TV supporting or not supporting HLG, we know they do support HLG, but I suspect they have a problem with the DASH-DVB stream that iPlayer is using, this explains why it isn't even available in 4K SDR, also Sony TVs seem to be having similar issues, see https://community.sony.cz/t5/android-tv/bbc-iplayer-blue-planet-2-uhd-hdr/m-p/2403544

 

The wider implication for 2016 models (and maybe the 2017 models as we've not seen Blue Planet supported on these yet), is that these TVs may never be able to play 4K HEVC content even in SDR if the problem is due to the DASH-DVB format support, as that is how, as I understand, that iPlayer will stream all 4K contect.

 

It would be nice for some detailed information from Samsung to what is happening, and  if support can't happen for iPlayer 4K contenct then potentially they are facing a huge negative PR nightmare if it gets picked up in the media, so I'm sure they are trying their best.

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

Big Cheese

@Phil12 wrote:

Hi

 

I don't think the issue is with the TV supporting or not supporting HLG, we know they do support HLG, but I suspect they have a problem with the DASH-DVB stream that iPlayer is using, this explains why it isn't even available in 4K SDR, also Sony TVs seem to be having similar issues, see https://community.sony.cz/t5/android-tv/bbc-iplayer-blue-planet-2-uhd-hdr/m-p/2403544

 

The wider implication for 2016 models (and maybe the 2017 models as we've not seen Blue Planet supported on these yet), is that these TVs may never be able to play 4K HEVC content even in SDR if the problem is due to the DASH-DVB format support, as that is how, as I understand, that iPlayer will stream all 4K contect.

 

It would be nice for some detailed information from Samsung to what is happening, and  if support can't happen for iPlayer 4K contenct then potentially they are facing a huge negative PR nightmare if it gets picked up in the media, so I'm sure they are trying their best.

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 Does this mean that you are saying that Samsung may have made a bit of a ***** up! If what you are saying is true it is difficult to understand,as Samsung is suppose to be a leader in this field and they have failed it's customers in this regard. They have promised HLG support (even though they deni this for 2016 sets), so how are they going to correct this?  Thing is they are proberlarly more interested in sorting out their phone fiasco, which they only admitted to, when the evidence was overwhelming. If Panasonic has no problems with and they are supporting 2015 models, I find it so hard why Samsung can not!

Superuser I
Superuser I

@paul1277 wrote:

@Phil12 wrote:

Hi

 

I don't think the issue is with the TV supporting or not supporting HLG, we know they do support HLG, but I suspect they have a problem with the DASH-DVB stream that iPlayer is using, this explains why it isn't even available in 4K SDR, also Sony TVs seem to be having similar issues, see https://community.sony.cz/t5/android-tv/bbc-iplayer-blue-planet-2-uhd-hdr/m-p/2403544

 

The wider implication for 2016 models (and maybe the 2017 models as we've not seen Blue Planet supported on these yet), is that these TVs may never be able to play 4K HEVC content even in SDR if the problem is due to the DASH-DVB format support, as that is how, as I understand, that iPlayer will stream all 4K contect.

 

It would be nice for some detailed information from Samsung to what is happening, and  if support can't happen for iPlayer 4K contenct then potentially they are facing a huge negative PR nightmare if it gets picked up in the media, so I'm sure they are trying their best.

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 Does this mean that you are saying that Samsung may have made a bit of a ***** up! If what you are saying is true it is difficult to understand,as Samsung is suppose to be a leader in this field and they have failed it's customers in this regard. They have promised HLG support (even though they deni this for 2016 sets), so how are they going to correct this?  Thing is they are proberlarly more interested in sorting out their phone fiasco, which they only admitted to, when the evidence was overwhelming. If Panasonic has no problems with and they are supporting 2015 models, I find it so hard why Samsung can not!


I agree Paul, the DASH-DVB format support may be the issue Phil but can't see how Samsung don't have the technical know how to sort this out. If problems though suppose that's why 2016 models not a priority even if not really acceptable.  Anyway when I've contacted them Samsung don't seem to divulge much detail.
 
Did hear from BBC on live chat but they weren't able to shed much light:
Sarah : "It's a frustrating one, James. Samsung have a firmware update for the TVs that we'd listed on the site, and we had hoped that it would be rolled out before we released the trial, but they confirmed it wouldn't be ready on time. It's in their hands, so we don't know much about it at this stage unfortunately. Hopefully it will be updated very soon but it's Samsung who would be able to advise you further as it's out of our hands at this stage."
 
Expiry date has been confirmed as 16 January  which is a bit later than expected but was informed this was  just due to the Christmas holidays, page has been updated:
 
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What with HLG missing in iPlayer...the SmartThings extend that never turned up, and now Samsung SmartThings Hub
can't see the 2016 KS TVs anymore.

We are up **** creek without a paddle.
Voyager

@paul1277 wrote:

 Does this mean that you are saying that Samsung may have made a bit of a ***** up! If what you are saying is true it is difficult to understand,as Samsung is suppose to be a leader in this field and they have failed it's customers in this regard. They have promised HLG support (even though they deni this for 2016 sets), so how are they going to correct this?  Thing is they are proberlarly more interested in sorting out their phone fiasco, which they only admitted to, when the evidence was overwhelming. If Panasonic has no problems with and they are supporting 2015 models, I find it so hard why Samsung can not!


 

Hi

 

I'm just spectulating.  Yes we know they have made a mistake as obviously Samsung would want to support to this on their TVs.

 

The irony is cheaper TVs from the likes of HiSense with full support have a much easier time as they are just buying the chips from companies that do nothing else but make set-top chips, so the likes of Amlogic, Marvell, Mediatek etc.  These chips often come with their own problems or limitations and often aren't very high powered, but these companies know their basics and need to keep up with emerging standards in order to keep ahead of the competition.

 

Samsung tend to use a more complex mix of internals, for example their own processor partnered with more discrete silicon.  The One Box is more akin to a computer with a graphcis card, where as other TVs are more like a £30 cheap Android box with just one SoC chip that does everything costing a few dollars.  See attached pictures of a HiSense TV and the Samsung One Box, note how HiSense is based around a single chip under a heatsink and the power supply.  The picture of the One Box is just the circuit for the TV, there is still a power supply and all the circuitry in the actual screen itself (not shown) on top this.  The HiSense TV, well that is all there is to it.  HiSense haven't really made that TV, they've just assembled it. 

 

Other TV manufacturers are fairly similar, it's rare that a Toshiba TV will contain any Toshiba chips for example.  Samsung are one of the few manufacturers that you can consider are actually building their own TVs, so it is really a Samsung TV, and not just a TV made by some OEM manufacturer branded up.  The downside is for Samsung it is a lot more work in getting products to market and this translates into these sorts of issues we are seeing now.

 

We will just have to see what happens in the coming weeks.  By the sounds of it seems the BBC does indeed have firmware that supports HLG on iPlayer at least for the 2017 models, just for some reason Samsung hasn't released it yet, this could simply be down to finding a bug or they are behind with testing and validation before rolling it out.

 

Regards

 

Phil197841-26.jpgOne Box motherboardHisense-50K360G-1.jpgInside a HiSense TV, one chip solution from third party company

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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