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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

(Topic created on: 05-12-2017 06:16 AM)
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ewanstancarr
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So, of the nigh on 400 TVs supported in BBC iplayer for the Blue Planet II  HLG episodes none are from Samsung. Oh joy. 

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Moderator edit: Original thread title was "Blue Planet 2 HLG - No Samsung". With the OP's permission, the title was changed on 12/03/2018 to accurately reflect the dominant theme of the thread as it has progressed. If the reader would like to know more about the HLG format, please check out the BBC's page and FAQ's on it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/high-dynamic-range Thank you, AntS.

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amokuk
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It definitely isn't far less important as its the only way for the foreseeable future that you will be able to get live bbc services in 4k and HLG.

The sky issue is on equal footing though as virgin media will be when they pull their finger out.
crashcris
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Come on @JTE , I think you're being a little disingenuous there. Yes, we all want Samsung to enable the 4k UHD HLG iplayer App on all TVs that could physically support it but as we're still awaiting a "soon to be made" statement on that from Samsung, I don't see any harm in investigating other ways in which our TVs can potentially play the UHD HLG media. If you have the KS TV then it appears that you're in luck, as for myself with a JS TV, I'm not so fortunate. I appreciate the efforts that some have gone to in investigating these issues and in the absence of an official statement I enjoy reading this forum (yes, even the ridiculous "heated debates" that the late, great Mrs Merton would have been proud of).

 

I love my JS8000, I just want to be able to love it even more when the BBC do eventually start pumping out 4k UHD programmes regularly (which might well still be a couple of years away).

 

BTW, before anybody asks I'd like to declare that I do not work for or have any affiliation with Sony, Panasonic or LG.

TastyBurger666
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@UHDHDRwrote:

Here is the screenshot.  You can see its being played via HDMI source.

 

Yk33qITr


I think that confirms a HLG encoded source playing via the VP9 / MPEG Codec - I don't think that was in dispute (despite what some posters claim), it's the issue around DVB-DASH that is the 'muddied' problem.

chopples123
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hlg over hdmi is probably more important  as going forward there will be more external devices which will incorporate bbc iplayer uhd services. Its not coming to the internal app, that ship has well and truly sailed.

 

 

chopples123
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codecs which the TV can handle is largly irelevent  when using an external device. Decoding is done on the device not TV. Likewise on an external device any handling of the HTML5 stream and DRM from a dvb-dash app such as iplayer would be handled externally. The TV in this instance just needs to be able to display the signal in the approriate resolution and colourspace. That screenshot  indicates The KS set is capable which is good news.

 

Direct TV/Sky Italia appears to suggest the EDID  has not been updated to tell these external devices it cannot handle the signal. It has been suggested (unlike Iplayer) a fix is being worked one, this will probably be a deal breaker for most as failure to fix this will essentially render HLG worthless for KS customers.

 

 

paul1111
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@chopples123wrote:

codecs which the TV can handle is largly irelevent  when using an external device. Decoding is done on the device not TV. Likewise on an external device any handling of the HTML5 stream and DRM from a dvb-dash app such as iplayer would be handled externally. The TV in this instance just needs to be able to display the signal in the approriate resolution and colourspace. That screenshot  indicates The KS set is capable which is good news.

 

Direct TV/Sky Italia appears to suggest the EDID  has not been updated to tell these external devices it cannot handle the signal. It has been suggested (unlike Iplayer) a fix is being worked one, this will probably be a deal breaker for most as failure to fix this will essentially render HLG worthless for KS customers.

 

 


May I ask are you saying the devices handle the codec,  and does this also mean the devices send a HDR signal not hlg?  I accept I am some what confused over this. 

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chopples123
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External devices will send what they can send, if its HLG then it will send HLG likewise with HDR10. For example That LG clip played through say a 5 year old windows PC plugged into a compatible 4k TV will be a mess regardless of the TV's capabilities, It will be attempting to software decode,stuttering and unable to send the appropriate colour space, that same clip played on a compliant external device (the example here is youtube) will work fine. The important thing is the display can handle the appropriate resolution/colourspace and frame rate, the heavy lifting is done by the decoding device.

There is some confusion within this thread that the issues are linked between the Iplayer and HLG over HDMI. My view is they are not, HLG is fully backwards compatible with SDR and there are many sets which have the iplayer app and could handle the HLG stream but could not display HLG (essentially just 4k) the low range 2016 LG's are an example of this. The KS series do not function full stop, which leads me to think the issues are with the method for the delivery of content rather than the ability to decode and display it.

Once more external compliant devices hit the market the handling of delivery and decoding of this content will be offloaded to them meaning the TV just has to be able to display the signal. This is why its more important in my view for Samsung to fix whatever issues they appear to be having with the EDID. If they can resolve this then it will at least give KS owners options which could ultimately include via iplayer (via an external device)
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paul1111
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@chopples123wrote:
External devices will send what they can send, if its HLG then it will send HLG likewise with HDR10. For example That LG clip played through say a 5 year old windows PC plugged into a compatible 4k TV will be a mess regardless of the TV's capabilities, It will be attempting to software decode,stuttering and unable to send the appropriate colour space, that same clip played on a compliant external device (the example here is youtube) will work fine. The important thing is the display can handle the appropriate resolution/colourspace and frame rate, the heavy lifting is done by the decoding device.

There is some confusion within this thread that the issues are linked between the Iplayer and HLG over HDMI. My view is they are not, HLG is fully backwards compatible with SDR and there are many sets which have the iplayer app and could handle the HLG stream but could not display HLG (essentially just 4k) the low range 2016 LG's are an example of this. The KS series do not function full stop, which leads me to think the issues are with the method for the delivery of content rather than the ability to decode and display it.

Once more external compliant devices hit the market the handling of delivery and decoding of this content will be offloaded to them meaning the TV just has to be able to display the signal. This is why its more important in my view for Samsung to fix whatever issues they appear to be having with the EDID. If they can resolve this then it will at least give KS owners options which could ultimately include via iplayer (via an external device)

Again thank you for that and I think that as hlg is backwards compatible unlike hdr10 it can be sent from any source to any TV but if the TV is not compatible it will just show a sdr picture. Now this is where I am getting confused is can the ks receive and play a HDR picture from a hlg source over hdmi? Or is the hlg source being clipped to sdr? 

What is confusing me is I  see the article posted here and on avs forums that seem to be saying hlg can not be sent over hdmi to the ks to get a HDR picture. People are saying that hlg is the same as HDR which again is a bit confusing. 

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amokuk
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Errm not sure why you think that is true? The tv set does the decode in hardware because it is capable of doing it. This is exactly why you have a hdmi handshake between hardware devices so it knows what signal to send for the tv to do its stuff. Sky q will bot be doing a decode and then passing out a signal to your tv, thats not how it works as far as i know.
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Pete1234
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My understanding is this:

 

HDR is the overall display enhancement which creates a greater dynamic range between dark and light.

 

HLG is just one method or format of delivering an HDR picture  There are several others e.g. dolby vision, HDR10+.  The advantage of HLG over other formats is that SDR and HDR pictures can be combined in one video stream.  So really this is an advantage to the broadcaster/content creator.