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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

Helping Hand

@ne_on wrote:

I’m under the impression that the Xbox one automatically switches to 10 bit once view a hdr source such as blu Ray film or game even if I set the Xbox to 8 bit. Surely hdr10 content can only be viewed with 10bit processing.
[...]

 

I’m new to this and want to always be receiving the best picture. Anyone out there that help?

Although HDR10 implies 10bit, it can unnofficially be any bit-depth. The HDR-ness of a picture, is technically whether it is using the "PQ" curve instead of the old "gamma" curve, is separate from the other picture parameters: bit-depth, frame-rate and YCbCr chroma subsampling (4:4:4 is equivalent to RGB with no chroma subsampling compression; then 4:2:2 needs less bandwidth but loses some picture information, then 4:2:0 is less again and worse quality again).

 

All these factors together add up to how much "bandwidth" is required for any given screen mode, up to a maximum of 18Gbps which is the limit in HDMI2.0a/b. 

 

So if you wanted 4K 60Hz 4:4:4/RGB, your only option is to use 8bit, because of the bandwidth limitation. But in this mode, HDR isn't officially supported (but probably works). Even then you would not want to, because with only 8 bits (256 values) stretched over a much wider range of brightnesses (the HDR), you would get terrible "banding" on the screen because each colour is too different to its neighbouring colour.

 

This is why 10bit with some chroma-subsampling, is far better than 8bit 4:4:4, for HDR. (in the 4K60 modes)

 

Below is a table summarising this which I created myself from various online sources. It's a lot of info crammed into one table which may be too much, but keep it aside anyway

You can see for example, that for 4K 60Hz HDR, the PS4 Pro uses the 12bit 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 modes. (There isn't a 10bit 4K 60Hz  4:2:2 mode in the HDMI2.0a/b standards. It's added in HDMI 2.1).

 

HDMI modes.png

Navigator

Wow thanks @mrtickle. Great table. 

But I still don’t know the answer for my issue. I just wanted to know in my Xbox settings if I should select 8 bit or 10 bit under colour depth. If I select 10 bit will it upscale all my content to 10bit, even the games and films mastered in 8bit sdr. Or is it correct to set it to 8 bit? As my KS goes into hdr mode when I watch or play a hdrsource. Which means it is automatically switching right?

Also, would me selecting allow ycc 4.2.2 also in the Xbox settings benefit my overall picture?

heres a link which shows the Xbox display settings.

https://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/console/adjust-display-settings

Apprentice

@ne_on wrote:

BT


I'd put my money there. I also heard a rumour a couple of months ago that there is a Youview firmware in beta that enables iPlayer in UHD, but there was other higher priority stuff (may have been to do with GDPR?) that was ahead in the release queue. 

Highlighted

@_garfield_ wrote:

@ne_on wrote:

BT


I'd put my money there. I also heard a rumour a couple of months ago that there is a Youview firmware in beta that enables iPlayer in UHD, but there was other higher priority stuff (may have been to do with GDPR?) that was ahead in the release queue. 


Interesting stuff, I wonder if it may be the same 2.0 version as on the PS4?

 

On that, I wonder if the lack of HLG is down to it only being HDMI 2.0a?

 

 

 

 

Helping Hand

@ne_on you're more than welcome. I haven't kept up with the Xbox settings posts elsewhere. yes if the TV goes into HDR mode it's switching correctly. I think the console switches itself, too. Example, which is plucked out of the air so ignore this, but it's a bit like "set to 10bit, then it plays 10bit HDR for movies, and switches to 8bit HDR for games when it needs to". But someone who knows the specific settings for an Xbox should answer - or join avsform and read the excellent posts on those two places. That's where I've learned everthing about HDR etc since buying my TV in 2016!

Helping Hand

 


@_garfield_ wrote:

@ne_on wrote:

BT


I'd put my money there. I also heard a rumour a couple of months ago that there is a Youview firmware in beta that enables iPlayer in UHD, but there was other higher priority stuff (may have been to do with GDPR?) that was ahead in the release queue. 


Haha. I think GDPR is the most disruptive technological change to be foistered on UK businesses since the Millennium bug

 

However, GDPR is a very GOOD THING and only gives us all rights that we *****^H^H^H^H jolly well should have had, properly enforced as well, for years and years. So if a company is finding cobwebs in its systems and procedures (I know many that have), such that they've had to pull people off other projects, then so be it. The danger of a million pound fine, which would wipe out many busineses completely, tends to concentrate the mind. So you can understand them dropping everything else.

 

 

Voyager

@mrtickle wrote: 
I haven't kept up with the Xbox settings posts elsewhere. yes if the TV goes into HDR mode it's switching correctly. I think the console switches itself, too.

There's a really good explanation of the XBOX 4K HDR settings by Vincent Teoh at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHVJYB-Qews

Navigator

Ok thanks @mrtickle

yeah I seen that video. Was still confused about the 4.2.2 bit though

Apprentice

Long time viewer of these threads (recognise some of the guys from the skyQ forum). I’ve had a 49 KS8000 since August 2016.

 

Quick question for JTE - does the iPlayer UHD you mention display in HLG on your Panasonic? As it is only in UHD on my KS8000 via my STB. It does however play both the Planet Earth 2 test and the football loop all the way through.......which is more than the Roku + does.

 

Quick question for Tarbat - would the Integral be able to act as a switch for two HDCP 2.2 inputs to one output?

 

Thanks in advance.

Helping Hand

@ne_on wrote:

@ok thanks @mrtickle

yeah I seen that video. Was still confused about the 4.2.2 bit though


ok, well the highlights are:

14:55 - "there's no reason not to select 8bit on your console, because it'll auto-switch to 12bit for HDR content anyway"

"in all cases, allow ycc 4:2:2"

 

Vincent explains it about 11mins in, and you can refer to my grid I posted earlier whilst you watch that bit. The technical stuff is concerning the modes on the bottom 3 rows of my chart, the 4K24Hz section.

Say for some reason that the Xbox is struggling to use the 10/12 bit rgb (column1) or 4:4:4 modes (column2) on your TV. (The tan coloured ones that need 11.14Gbps and 13.37Gbps.). Your HDMI cable might not be good enough to pass 13Gbps - that sort of issue.

In this particular situation, if you don't have the 4:2:2 option ticked, it's falling back to 8bit SDR (3rd row up from the bottom, green boxes, the ones that use 8.91Gbps). Falling back to SDR 8bit isn't great really.

But if you do tick it, it'll unlock the 4:2:2 12bit mode (column 3, bottom row, note - also 8.91Gbps!). But with this you'll get HDR!

 

That's all it is really.

 

Finally, start watching at 17:50 for a section which just tells you "set it like this".

 

EDIT: I've improved my table.

HDMI-bandwidths-chroma-bits.png

 

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