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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

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@Tezz wrote:

I would love to know what samsung is up to.they have lost 40% of their marketshare in TVs this year alone.

 

 

As of yesterday I am currently trialing a UHD Set Top Box  from a previously unmentioned TV provider that supports BBC UHD iPlayer. For obvious reasons I can’t say who but if all goes will I anticipate a software update being rolled out to other customers very soon as there is no requirement to change hardware. Currently running through a 4K AV system and will try my old J Series Samsung this evening. Looking forward to being able to update everyone soon.


 

Apprentice

@TastyBurger666

As I say, I just don't think they have the physical equipment in place at the point where it's going Radix -> CDN. Radix is only designed to scale well with HD content, but for UHD they've essentially built a brand new production chain from scratch.

 

I think the chicken's are coming home to roost a little for them in terms of the distribution system they've gone for, however.


The problem is at the distribution encoding level, as that requires physical kit to be installed on-premise, and the UHD encoders are very expensive (approaching 100K per channel). Everything else from distribution onwards is cloud based, so it is almost as simple as launching a few more instances if you need to scale up capacity.

Apprentice

I work in the streaming video industry myself, and have joined the forum with the usual set of complaints about a 2016 KU screen: No iPlayer UHD and third party UHD devices don't seem to negotiate HLG when plugged into the HDMI ports.  No surprise there really.

 

Except a BBC employee ran their certification app on my TV when visiting, which allows you to try the various different types of streams on devices before they get added to iPlayer. The Planet Earth loop starts playing with HLG, but the TV crashes (needs you to unplug power) after 90 seconds, which is a pretty good reason to fail certification. But the live football highlights loop played with HLG for the duration without issue, other than a couple of buffering pauses.

 

This suggests to me that at least some of the 2016 TVs are much closer to being compatible than Samsung are letting on, but (according to my BBC contact) it's entirely up to the manufacturer to get TVs certified, as the iPlayer app is just a web interface to the player built into the TV firmware.

 

We also had a go at feeding the BBC stream URLs directly to a Chromecast UHD stick. While they did play successfully, there was no HLG, which again demonstrates the negotiation isn't happening with HDMI devices.


@_garfield_ wrote:

@TastyBurger666

As I say, I just don't think they have the physical equipment in place at the point where it's going Radix -> CDN. Radix is only designed to scale well with HD content, but for UHD they've essentially built a brand new production chain from scratch.

 

I think the chicken's are coming home to roost a little for them in terms of the distribution system they've gone for, however.


The problem is at the distribution encoding level, as that requires physical kit to be installed on-premise, and the UHD encoders are very expensive (approaching 100K per channel). Everything else from distribution onwards is cloud based, so it is almost as simple as launching a few more instances if you need to scale up capacity.


Uh-huh, unfortunately the current version of Radix is configured only for HD, which's why they've been doing extensive testing on different AWS bucket configurations with a view to seeing which ones are able to process and stream off larger and more complex chunks before it's handed off to the CDN. 

 

As BBCR&D say themselves, HEVC processing on cloud instances takes a hell of a lot of compute power, and burns through credits.

 

We already know the WC Media Centre is using 2 Sony processors at the Headend for UHD processing alone (including OTA), and the other processing is being done by the Beeb themselves.

 

Interesting information about the Certification app thingy...

Apprentice

@TastyBurger666 wrote:

@_garfield_

Uh-huh, unfortunately the current version of Radix is configured only for HD, which's why they've been doing extensive testing on different AWS bucket configurations with a view to seeing which ones are able to process and stream off larger and more complex chunks before it's handed off to the CDN. 

 


As the BBC Internet Blog post said:

 

For on demand, we have long used our in-house Radix solution. Our OTG colleagues have now set up a new Radix pool for handling UHD content and everything here is now looking pretty good.


Radix is easy to scale out in different configurations, can be done in minutes along with most of the iPlayer workflow, I've been told as much by somone who works on it. It's the tin boxes in BH that are limiting them to a single channel I'm told, other bottlenecks have been sorted. Current workflow is only temporary though, expected to be replaced within a year. It's not a secret that the BBC uses Elemental for their encoders, who are now owned by Amazon. Once they offer UHD live encoding in the cloud, I'd expect most providers to shift across, as paying by the hour for a few sports events is going to be cheaper then buying the physical AWS encoders to put on premise. It already is for HD encoding.

 

There are some potential gotchas with the CDNs though. As a streaming content provider you have an agreed peak bitrate with your distribution CDN provider(s), and you have to keep on top of what you are serving at a given time. If you look like you are going to exceed the agreed level, then you need to start degrading your offering (by stopping clients joining higher bitrates, or shutting them down completely) to remain within what you have agreed. Obviously with 36Mbps UHD streams, you will hit agreed limits 6 times faster than with HD 6Mbps streams.


@_garfield_ wrote:

@TastyBurger666 wrote:

@_garfield_

Uh-huh, unfortunately the current version of Radix is configured only for HD, which's why they've been doing extensive testing on different AWS bucket configurations with a view to seeing which ones are able to process and stream off larger and more complex chunks before it's handed off to the CDN. 

 


As the BBC Internet Blog post said:

 

For on demand, we have long used our in-house Radix solution. Our OTG colleagues have now set up a new Radix pool for handling UHD content and everything here is now looking pretty good.


Radix is easy to scale out in different configurations, can be done in minutes along with most of the iPlayer workflow, I've been told as much by somone who works on it. It's the tin boxes in BH that are limiting them to a single channel I'm told, other bottlenecks have been sorted. Current workflow is only temporary though, expected to be replaced within a year. It's not a secret that the BBC uses Elemental for their encoders, who are now owned by Amazon. Once they offer UHD live encoding in the cloud, I'd expect most providers to shift across, as paying by the hour for a few sports events is going to be cheaper then buying the physical AWS encoders to put on premise. It already is for HD encoding.

 

There are some potential gotchas with the CDNs though. As a streaming content provider you have an agreed peak bitrate with your distribution CDN provider(s), and you have to keep on top of what you are serving at a given time. If you look like you are going to exceed the agreed level, then you need to start degrading your offering (by stopping clients joining higher bitrates, or shutting them down completely) to remain within what you have agreed. Obviously with 36Mbps UHD streams, you will hit agreed limits 6 times faster than with HD 6Mbps streams.


Elemental! Yes, I was trying to explain the software to a work colleague (I work in Broadcast Media, and know plenty of people at BBC News who have very famous backs of heads), but it was on the tip of my tongue. 

 

But yeah, its no secret infrastructure and network constraints are the issues with this trial.

 

 


@JTE wrote:

@Tezz wrote:

I would love to know what samsung is up to.they have lost 40% of their marketshare in TVs this year alone.

 

 

As of yesterday I am currently trialing a UHD Set Top Box  from a previously unmentioned TV provider that supports BBC UHD iPlayer. For obvious reasons I can’t say who but if all goes will I anticipate a software update being rolled out to other customers very soon as there is no requirement to change hardware. Currently running through a 4K AV system and will try my old J Series Samsung this evening. Looking forward to being able to update everyone soon.


 


Wonder if that's the Amazon 4k Cube Streamer?

Helping Hand

 


@TastyBurger666 wrote:

@JTE wrote:

 

As of yesterday I am currently trialing a UHD Set Top Box  from a previously unmentioned TV provider that supports BBC UHD iPlayer. For obvious reasons I can’t say who but if all goes will I anticipate a software update being rolled out to other customers very soon as there is no requirement to change hardware. Currently running through a 4K AV system and will try my old J Series Samsung this evening. Looking forward to being able to update everyone soon.


 


Wonder if that's the Amazon 4k Cube Streamer?


I thought of playing that game! Mention one manfucturer, and then ask if it's still unmentioned.

Then the next menufacturer.

As soon as he says "yes" we stop and we know which one it is

 

However, he did say it was someone unmentioned, and so I thought it couldn't be Amazon as they have been mentioned.

 

TV provider: Netflix? A netflix STB?

 

 

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Guys I said a existing TV provider. I also said Ultra HD set top box. I also said no new hardware required for existing customers. I am British and based in U.K. this is no ***** take and you can check my thread history if in doubt of my genuiness. The only reason I am not saying is because of rules. That said, if you wonder whether that might include  your provider and box try going to software in settings. Press 3 then 9 then small blue button and then OK. After that select feedback group 8 and update your software.

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