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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

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Voyager

@MJM87 wrote:

@chopples123 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:
I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.

Tbf with the exception of Sony (due to android) no TV manufacturer updates beyond there base OS

 

cheers


Doesn't mean it's difficult though. There are countless ARM-based systems that run some flavour of the Linux kernel that are updatable, TVs are no different. In all honesty I don't expect it would require an entirely new OS anyway - why wouldn't they just distribute a binary to support iPlayer HLG broadcasts in the same way they distributed one to support other HLG broadcasts? The technical barriers are very low, just ask all the other manufacturers who updated their sets.


the reason it doesnt support iplayer mate is nothing to do with the fact the stream is HLG, a new binary wouldnt circumvent the DRM involved, info is all in the thread, 

 

I am not disputing what you say and I am sure it could be done (Tizen update), I am just saying how it is and this goes for multiple TV manufacturers not just Samsung

 

HLG was ratified after this set had been on the market circa 10 months, at this time the BBC launched the original trial on the LG and Panny sets, before this I dont think anyone new the method they would use for delivery of there content.

 

Samsung could have used more recent api's when the set launched instead of the same as the JS sets as they where available but hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

cheers

Apprentice

@chopples123 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:

@chopples123 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:
I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.

Tbf with the exception of Sony (due to android) no TV manufacturer updates beyond there base OS

 

cheers


Doesn't mean it's difficult though. There are countless ARM-based systems that run some flavour of the Linux kernel that are updatable, TVs are no different. In all honesty I don't expect it would require an entirely new OS anyway - why wouldn't they just distribute a binary to support iPlayer HLG broadcasts in the same way they distributed one to support other HLG broadcasts? The technical barriers are very low, just ask all the other manufacturers who updated their sets.


the reason it doesnt support iplayer mate is nothing to do with the fact the stream is HLG, a new binary wouldnt circumvent the DRM involved, info is all in the thread, 

 

I am not disputing what you say and I am sure it could be done (Tizen update), I am just saying how it is and this goes for multiple TV manufacturers not just Samsung

 

HLG was ratified after this set had been on the market circa 10 months, at this time the BBC launched the original trial on the LG and Panny sets, before this I dont think anyone new the method they would use for delivery of there content.

 

Samsung could have used more recent api's when the set launched instead of the same as the JS sets as they where available but hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

cheers


Ah, just spotted that the APIs  for Windvine and Clearkey are apparently fixed to an older version. Can that really not be updated separate to the OS? 


@MJM87 wrote:


Ah, just spotted that the APIs  for Windvine and Clearkey are apparently fixed to an older version. Can that really not be updated separate to the OS? 


In any other Universe, they'd be on the firmware, but no, it's on the metal.

Helping Hand

@TastyBurger666 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:


Ah, just spotted that the APIs  for Windvine and Clearkey are apparently fixed to an older version. Can that really not be updated separate to the OS? 


In any other Universe, they'd be on the firmware, but no, it's on the metal.


Precisely.

 

Please can we not do this for another 300 pages? Welcome to the newcomers, but there's very little new to discuss on the subject of whether or not the OS of the KS 2016 TVs is ever going to be upgrade (it is not) to support the newer versions of the DRM (it won't) so that iPlayer and any other app that wants to can use DVB-DASH (it can't) so that the internal iPlayer app can display the BBC's newer 4k streams (it will never). It's just a waste of energy when with the best will in the world, you can read back and do a search, or you can believe us today when we're trying to catch you up.

 

We've moved on because the focus is now either on refunds (another thread) for those who chose that route. Or, on using iplayer running on other external devices such as the Roku connected to HDMI, and the associated challenges with working-around  another unrelated bug (the HDMI EDID), which several independant sources have said that Samsung will fix in a firmware update.

 

 

 

Voyager

Nicely put Mr Tickle.  Don't want the thread hijacked again.  The only root for HLG via iPlayer we have now is via connected devices.  This may be one or more of the following in order of preference.

1) Samsung fixing the EDID via firmware - this may happen

2) use a Roku+ that does not care about the EDID (for now)

3) Buying an HD Fury Intregral to bypass the EDID issue.

 

 

Apprentice

@chopples123 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:

@chopples123 wrote:

@MJM87 wrote:
I've updated my PC from Windows 8 to the lastest version of Windows 10, and it's 4 years old. My 3 year old phone has had three major version numbers of Android on it, and I have a 2013 Macbook that has had 5 different OS' and continues to be updated to this day. At work we keep 10,000 core supercomputers totally up to date for 5 years. Withdrawing updates for uncomplicated consumer hardware a year after it comes out is just lazy on Samsung's part.

Tbf with the exception of Sony (due to android) no TV manufacturer updates beyond there base OS

 

cheers


Doesn't mean it's difficult though. There are countless ARM-based systems that run some flavour of the Linux kernel that are updatable, TVs are no different. In all honesty I don't expect it would require an entirely new OS anyway - why wouldn't they just distribute a binary to support iPlayer HLG broadcasts in the same way they distributed one to support other HLG broadcasts? The technical barriers are very low, just ask all the other manufacturers who updated their sets.


the reason it doesnt support iplayer mate is nothing to do with the fact the stream is HLG, a new binary wouldnt circumvent the DRM involved, info is all in the thread, 

 

I am not disputing what you say and I am sure it could be done (Tizen update), I am just saying how it is and this goes for multiple TV manufacturers not just Samsung

 

HLG was ratified after this set had been on the market circa 10 months, at this time the BBC launched the original trial on the LG and Panny sets, before this I dont think anyone new the method they would use for delivery of there content.

 

Samsung could have used more recent api's when the set launched instead of the same as the JS sets as they where available but hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

cheers


Just to clarify, I'm only newly registered, I have actually been following the thread for some time & not just on this forum, though I feel the most progress & commitment has been made here.

 

I get that the somewhat point of the status quo but if we're going to just roll over on consumer issues, we deserve what we get. Like someone mentioned. You can update Windows 7 to windows 10, heck even my macbook supports me installing windows 10 on my 6 year old laptop, to say they couldn't implement this on 10month old Tv (with a thrown in 5 year guarantee) is a joke. It would be honourable of them to just update the underlying OS.

 

I follow your point (hindsight is a wonderful thing) but that's the point, they would know that there would be R&D on a delivery system so they should have used an open/new api. They shouldn't shaft the consumer, the whole point is to voice the consumer opinion (demands) so they know that this isn't acceptable standards, especially as it's a new format standard and with that, a clear reason to have room on their OS choice to implement features such as new delivery systems. It's 2018, this kind of customer service would be fine for when we didn't have the resources but we are way past that.

 

We're giving them a chance of refining their Tizen OS. Didn't Samsung have an evolution kit in previous years to tackle these kind of issues, clearly a step back in moving forward.

 

& those who say they've moved on, I think you're missing the point, IPlayer is just one app using the European Standard, other apps will follow suit eventually. How many hoops are you willing to jump for Samsung.

 

If it was a hardware issue, fine... but it's not.

Voyager

I’d like to reiterate the points make by @mrtickle and @blenky. Can we now Lee this thread focused on new information, particularly if it is in the direction of allowing connected devices to show HLG. 

First Poster

I’ve just received the following response with regard to updating the iPlayer app for Apple TV, there are no plans to do so at the moment, but they seem to be very feedback focused, so the more people that contact them, the more likely they will be to implement changes. Contact form: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/contact/return

 

 

Many thanks for getting in contact with the BBC iPlayer Support Team.

 

I understand you wish to know whether there have been any plans to allow Apple TV to view 4K content on BBC iPlayer.

 

At present, there doesn't appear to be any plans due to the focus being on making sure the World Cup UHD trials run smoothly.

 

However, that's not to say that there isn't going to be something put in place in the future.

 

I would assume when there is more news surrounding this, the information will be made available, here:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/latest-news

 

We build our service mainly using feedback from our audience members to try and make the service better.

 

I will certainly get your comments registered onto our Audience Feedback Report to be seen by BBC Senior Management and those of the BBC iPlayer Product Team to show that you have been expressing an interest for this matter.

 

Thank you again for getting in touch.

 

All the best,

 


@Jakobi wrote:

We're giving them a chance of refining their Tizen OS. Didn't Samsung have an evolution kit in previous years to tackle these kind of issues, clearly a step back in moving forward.

 

& those who say they've moved on, I think you're missing the point, IPlayer is just one app using the European Standard, other apps will follow suit eventually. How many hoops are you willing to jump for Samsung.

 

If it was a hardware issue, fine... but it's not.


I'm not going to rehash these points (but I will partly):

 

The information is available on this - please have a look at previous pages, twitter and other news sites.

 

1. Samsung have said they won't be doing yearly updates to Tizen outside of providing the latest version on the latest kit - so 2018 users will be SOL when the 2019 sets get released.

2. For the KS series, it IS a hardware fault with the iPlayer Smart Hub version, as it's incompatible with the security API the app uses in conjunction with DVB-DASH. The set is perfectly fine displaying DASH content through the HDMI port, it CANNOT and WILL NEVER be able to display DASH (DVB or MPEG) based content through the Smart Hub.

3. The Evolution Kit debacle is that... another debacle. I'll let you do your own research there.


@SHIVERME wrote:

I’ve just received the following response with regard to updating the iPlayer app for Apple TV, there are no plans to do so at the moment, but they seem to be very feedback focused, so the more people that contact them, the more likely they will be to implement changes. Contact form: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/contact/return

 

 

Many thanks for getting in contact with the BBC iPlayer Support Team.

 

I understand you wish to know whether there have been any plans to allow Apple TV to view 4K content on BBC iPlayer.

 

At present, there doesn't appear to be any plans due to the focus being on making sure the World Cup UHD trials run smoothly.

 

However, that's not to say that there isn't going to be something put in place in the future.

 

I would assume when there is more news surrounding this, the information will be made available, here:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/latest-news

 

We build our service mainly using feedback from our audience members to try and make the service better.

 

I will certainly get your comments registered onto our Audience Feedback Report to be seen by BBC Senior Management and those of the BBC iPlayer Product Team to show that you have been expressing an interest for this matter.

 

Thank you again for getting in touch.

 

All the best,

 


Thanks for that, I've started a dialogue with some of the iPlayer Software Engineers on twitter who announced themselves after the World Cup announcement last week, and they do appear to be very dedicated people, who want the best version of the product out there.

 

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