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iPlayer HLG/UHD HDR on Samsung’s J and K Series TVs

(Topic created on: 26-12-2017 03:35 PM)
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ewanstancarr
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So, of the nigh on 400 TVs supported in BBC iplayer for the Blue Planet II  HLG episodes none are from Samsung. Oh joy. 

...

Moderator edit: Original thread title was "Blue Planet 2 HLG - No Samsung". With the OP's permission, the title was changed on 12/03/2018 to accurately reflect the dominant theme of the thread as it has progressed. If the reader would like to know more about the HLG format, please check out the BBC's page and FAQ's on it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/high-dynamic-range Thank you, AntS.

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cyenz
Explorer
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The problem is not only HLG, but also the promise of providing HDR10+ via FW update until the end of the year and then after the promise they backtracked with the promise.

 

Also in Game Mode when HDR kicks in the profile does not automatically so we must manually change everytime we change from SDR content to HDR content.

TastyBurger666
Voyager
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Nowt to do with the BBC, MPEG-DASH licensing within the DVB-DASH spec is handled by a third-party licensing company.

 

The interesting point is that if Samsung have already licensed the codec for 2017 models, surely the licensing agreement covers all the other models? 

 

Additionally, the codec itself is a joint project of the EBU, so are there any post-Brexit implications for those of us stuck in the UK (when we eventually have to leave the EBU).

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Amazed
Explorer
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@TastyBurger666 wrote:

Nowt to do with the BBC, MPEG-DASH licensing within the DVB-DASH spec is handled by a third-party licensing company.

 

The interesting point is that if Samsung have already licensed the codec for 2017 models, surely the licensing agreement covers all the other models? 

 

Additionally, the codec itself is a joint project of the EBU, so are there any post-Brexit implications for those of us stuck in the UK (when we eventually have to leave the EBU).


Oh no! Don't give them Brexit as a possible excuse! 😉😂

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BAMozzy
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@cyenz wrote:

The problem is not only HLG, but also the promise of providing HDR10+ via FW update until the end of the year and then after the promise they backtracked with the promise.

 

Also in Game Mode when HDR kicks in the profile does not automatically so we must manually change everytime we change from SDR content to HDR content.


I do agree that its worrying with regard to HLG and HDR10+ support - especially if either of these come with 'limitations' -like 'Broadcast' HLG Only or Amazon App HDR10+ only. In both cases, Samsung clearlt indicated that both of these formats would be supported with NO indication of limitations or restrictions.

 

Game Mode HDR is annoying to have to keep adjusting my Game Mode Settings back and forth between SDR and HDR content. To a degree, I can understand why its not a 'simple' fix to have an automatic 'switch' between a Game SDR and a Game HDR mode - like we see with the Movie/Standard Modes.

 

The way Samsung implement Game Mode makes it difficult - its either 'On' or 'Off' and 'over-rides' any of the 4 'standard' (Movie, Standard,etc) modes. Its classed as a Special Viweing mode - like HDR+ and Sports. If they added a 'second' Special viewing Mode for HDR Gaming, It would have to 'automatically' switch off the standard game mode and automatically Switch on the HDR game mode - although when it switches off Standard Game mode, it automatically defaults to a standard (one of the four modes) and could automatically start up the Movie HDR mode so input Lag would be terrible. I still think we would have to manually switch off the Standard Game Mode and then manually turn on Game HDR mode. 

 

If they were to move Game mode to a 'standard' mode for example, it may be difficult to switch to Game HDR without messing up Movie HDR switching. I am guessing that it could clash but then if the Software is set up to distinguish between Game and Movie, it may work. It would be great if we could have two Game Modes - 1 for HDR and 1 for SDR and to get automatic switching - especially if it doesn't negatively impact on the Input Lag in either mode.

 

Given the choice, I would prefer to manually tweak the settings than have to put up with 35ms+ Input Lag. That being said, it would be great if we could at least have two Game Modes per HDMI and some 'easy' if not automatic switching. The ability to set up two different game mode Profiles would also help if Samsung can't add a 2nd Game Mode. I would appreciate having a 'simple' method to switch between 2 stored Game Mode settings - 1 I can set up for SDR and the other a HDR mode

 

At least the KS is a bit more logical and easier to set up for gaming. On the 2017 sets, turning on/off HDMI UHD colour and turning on Game mode aren't even in the 'Picture' settings. The fact that Game mode isn't a 'picture' setting seems to be the main issue with implementing a dedicated SDR and HDR game mode. As a big gamer myself, owning both the XB1X and Pro - with around 50%+ of my TV's usage for gaming, the input lag was a big reason I went for a KS. The fact that the B6 OLED, the DX902 and XD9305 didn't match the KS was a major factor in my purchasing decision. Now that's matched by a B7 OLED - as well as automatically switching as necessary between SDR and HDR - is seriously tempting me right now. I would get HLG in iPlayer, Dolby Vision and LG have the option of 'artificially' creating dynamic metadata for improved HDR10 content....

 

 

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hdmi
Voyager
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@TastyBurger666 wrote:

Nowt to do with the BBC, MPEG-DASH licensing within the DVB-DASH spec is handled by a third-party licensing company.

 

The interesting point is that if Samsung have already licensed the codec for 2017 models, surely the licensing agreement covers all the other models? 

 

Additionally, the codec itself is a joint project of the EBU, so are there any post-Brexit implications for those of us stuck in the UK (when we eventually have to leave the EBU).


Dvb-dash is not specific to HLG, it is transport of iso bmff over IP, it applies to all type of MPEG data over IP (if there is licensing problem even SD/SDR/HD content won't be allowed) 

missing HLG support is all about Samsung breaking their promise by not dedicating resources to support older sets

hdmi
Voyager
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@BAMozzy wrote:

@cyenz wrote:

The problem is not only HLG, but also the promise of providing HDR10+ via FW update until the end of the year and then after the promise they backtracked with the promise.

 

Also in Game Mode when HDR kicks in the profile does not automatically so we must manually change everytime we change from SDR content to HDR content.


I do agree that its worrying with regard to HLG and HDR10+ support - especially if either of these come with 'limitations' -like 'Broadcast' HLG Only or Amazon App HDR10+ only. In both cases, Samsung clearlt indicated that both of these formats would be supported with NO indication of limitations or restrictions.

 

Game Mode HDR is annoying to have to keep adjusting my Game Mode Settings back and forth between SDR and HDR content. To a degree, I can understand why its not a 'simple' fix to have an automatic 'switch' between a Game SDR and a Game HDR mode - like we see with the Movie/Standard Modes.

 

The way Samsung implement Game Mode makes it difficult - its either 'On' or 'Off' and 'over-rides' any of the 4 'standard' (Movie, Standard,etc) modes. Its classed as a Special Viweing mode - like HDR+ and Sports. If they added a 'second' Special viewing Mode for HDR Gaming, It would have to 'automatically' switch off the standard game mode and automatically Switch on the HDR game mode - although when it switches off Standard Game mode, it automatically defaults to a standard (one of the four modes) and could automatically start up the Movie HDR mode so input Lag would be terrible. I still think we would have to manually switch off the Standard Game Mode and then manually turn on Game HDR mode. 

 

If they were to move Game mode to a 'standard' mode for example, it may be difficult to switch to Game HDR without messing up Movie HDR switching. I am guessing that it could clash but then if the Software is set up to distinguish between Game and Movie, it may work. It would be great if we could have two Game Modes - 1 for HDR and 1 for SDR and to get automatic switching - especially if it doesn't negatively impact on the Input Lag in either mode.

 

Given the choice, I would prefer to manually tweak the settings than have to put up with 35ms+ Input Lag. That being said, it would be great if we could at least have two Game Modes per HDMI and some 'easy' if not automatic switching. The ability to set up two different game mode Profiles would also help if Samsung can't add a 2nd Game Mode. I would appreciate having a 'simple' method to switch between 2 stored Game Mode settings - 1 I can set up for SDR and the other a HDR mode

 

At least the KS is a bit more logical and easier to set up for gaming. On the 2017 sets, turning on/off HDMI UHD colour and turning on Game mode aren't even in the 'Picture' settings. The fact that Game mode isn't a 'picture' setting seems to be the main issue with implementing a dedicated SDR and HDR game mode. As a big gamer myself, owning both the XB1X and Pro - with around 50%+ of my TV's usage for gaming, the input lag was a big reason I went for a KS. The fact that the B6 OLED, the DX902 and XD9305 didn't match the KS was a major factor in my purchasing decision. Now that's matched by a B7 OLED - as well as automatically switching as necessary between SDR and HDR - is seriously tempting me right now. I would get HLG in iPlayer, Dolby Vision and LG have the option of 'artificially' creating dynamic metadata for improved HDR10 content....

 

 


I am waiting for screen repair for my ks9000, if things do not get better then I will make use of either Curry's whatever happens or smartthing to return the set and go for LGE, repeat of my fridge repair and replacement

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ewanstancarr
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Given we have built up a head of steam on this forum can everyone also please raise a case online with citizens advice. It will take you two minutes and has the benefit of increasing awareness with trading standards.  I am sure Samsung will eventually do the right thing morally: its just the "when" I would like to happen sooner. What is almost as frustrating is the lack of any cogent response from Samsung itself. They truly are peerless in customer service! 

mrtickle
Helping Hand
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@hdmi wrote:


Dash is part of core dvb standards, Samsung is member of DVB they do not have to pay extra, dvb-dash uses hevc Samsung have both hardware and software in place, it is only a matter of pushing same iPlayer app on 2016/15 sets (they would need some resources to test this out though)


Cool, thanks for the information. Also didn't someone earlier post that Netflix uses DVB-DASH anyway.... if so my apologies for barking up the wrong tree the other day.

 

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TastyBurger666
Voyager
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Ah, thanks for that. I was thinking earlier it could be similar to a Kodi situation where the official MPEG codec can be unlocked by paying an extra fee to Kodi themselves for a license key.

 

But as you say, it's simpler than that - merely Samsung want to unit-shift the latest set. Ugh.

 

paul1111
Hotshot
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Already informed Citizens Advice and raised a claim number which is sent to trading standards. Also used facebook and messaged Curry's, Richer Sounds (who have said they are looking into it), and AV Forums and anyone else I can think of.