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paul1277 Hotshot
‎30-01-2018 04:47 PM

rosscouk wrote:

Hi All,



Just had the latest reply from John Lewis - very interesting. John Lewis apologise but actually don't offer anything directly although the reply from Samsung talks about supplying a hub. Any thoughts?



"I am contacting you in regards to the issue with the SmartThings dongle with the Samsung UE49KS8000 SUHD HDR 1,000 4K Ultra HD Quantum Dot Smart TV, 49” with Freeview HD, Playstation Now & 360° Design, UHD Premium you bought via ******. We would like to apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you.We have received feedback from our supplier which is stated below.



"I have spoken to the SmartThings team. They confirm for cases where a
customer has purchased a 2016 TV and were expecting to get it to perform
the functions of a SmartThings hub , SmartThings can provide a hub to
that customer instead.



It should be noted that a SmartThings hub would not deliver the functionality
that the below copy suggested was possible. The originally promised
‘embedded’ SmartThings hub would have delivered control directly from the
TV screen whereas a Hub would need to be controlled from a mobile or
tablet. It is also important to know that control over the TV is limited,
for instance it is not possible to switch the TV ON from standby.



Many of the ‘mis-selling’ enquiries are linked in to other areas with
SmartThings being just one thing that customers feel we have let them down
on (BBC iPlayer HLG and HDR10+). It is however the only thing that would
stand up as mis-selling because it was promised in advertising and remained
so during the retail life of the product. From the enquiries I have looked
at only a small proportion of customers really understood what the
SmartThings extend proposition actually was, in some cases its purpose has
been misinterpreted to the point where the customer thinks that this is
going to give them UHD Content on BBC iPlayer".



Thank you for contacting John Lewis and if you require any further details please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely,"

They have admitted miss selling



"it is however the only thing that would stand up as mis-selling because it was promised in advertising and remained
so during the retail life of the product."



The smart hub they are offering is just a £60 Smart things hub. You will not be able to connect your TV to the Internet of Things without the smart dongle which Samsung have said they are not supplying. That means you were miss sold or the TV was misrepresented as per the consumer regs and you can ask for a replacement or refund. I like the way they are trying to confuse the issue but it is clear in what the are admitting to. I suggest your reply is thank you and as you acknowledge the misrepresentation of your TV , you request a full refund or replacement to the same spec as your TV.

I think you are there,

Paul
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snosig Explorer
‎06-02-2018 12:11 PM

After having contacted RGB Direct, the retailer I purchased my TV from, they forwarded my case to Samsung UK, which I had also contacted directly.



I just got a second reply from them, which goes as follows:

------------------------

Dear Mr. S*****,



Thank you for your email. Your customer reference number is ****.



This is to acknowledge that we have already received your email.



We sincerely apologise for the delayed response. In regard to your concern, to catch with HDR10+, the TVs,set-top boxes and 4K Blu-rays have to carry the firmware to handle it, and content has to be made in it. Currently, all of our 2017 HDR TVS can support this (we cannot confirm yet when or if it will going to be available to our 2016 models).



For the Smart things function, this function is already available. However, not all the TV series may support this. For the instructions how to activate this, please refer from this link: https://support.smartthings.com/hc/en-us/articles/210766566-Samsung-TV-as-a-Thing.

...



------------------------



To this I am replying:



------------------------

Hi, and thank you again for your reply.



However, it seems like you are not getting my point, or deliberately misunderstanding it.



So, I will try to be very clear in describing my situation and why I feel like I have been lied to and miss-sold.



First of all, and my biggest disappointment, is the broken promise regarding the SmartThings Extend.



As you can clearly see here (https://web.archive.org/web/20161130190102/https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-reveals-entire-20...), in a press release Samsung released on the Samsung Newsroom (news.samsung.com) on December 29 2015 (but has since then been taken down), Samsung state that its entire 2016 smart TV line-up will be Internet of Things ready and all TVs will apply IoT hub technology, allowing the TV itself to act as the controller for the entire smart home. This is a crucial part, as the function to have the TV as the hub and center of the smart home cannot be acquired with the standalone SmartThings Hub you linked to in your previous response. It only allows the hub to connect to the TV and gives you the option to control the TV with the SmartThings mobile app. I can not change the lighting, check the smart front door camera or use any other advertised smart features straight from the TV’s interface like promised. Here you can see the specific functions that are missing from your solution: https://youtu.be/KPhLa2ddWFY.



This was also specially addressed by Samsung Electronics America President & COO, Tim Baxter, at CES 2016. He starts talking about the SmartThings Extend USB adapter at the 3:55 mark on this video, https://youtu.be/bqkZw6NY3K8?t=3m55s.



It is crystal clear that there is no way to deliver this function Tim Baxter talks about, which was promised and described in the Samsung press release, now that the SmartThings Extend hub has been discontinued, so don’t bother trying to sell me on the idea that a separate SmartThings hub will give me this functionality.



As I mentioned in my previous email the CEO’s office of Samsung UK has already confirmed and admitted misrepresentation and false advertising which is a clear breach of the Oct 2015 European Consumer regs. and counts as a miss-selling, which means buyers are entitled to full refund or a replacement.



I don’t thin I can be any clearer on this. But if something is still unclear, please let me know and I will try to sort things out.



The other big reason why I chose this Samsung TV was because Samsung promised that it would support HDR10+ with a firmware update before the end of 2017. That has still not been the case and now you say that you “cannot confirm yet when or if it will going to be available to our 2016 models”. That does not give me any confidence in that Samsung will fulfill their promises made via special press releases that surely was a big factor and reason why many buyers, such as myself, ended up buying the Samsung 2016 KS TV’s.



Here are links to two separate news articles from the Samsung website (published on April 24th and April 26th 2017, I bought my TV on the 1st of May, largely based on these news):



http://www.samsung.com/global/tv/news/samsung-and-amazon-video-deliver-next-generation-hdr-video-exp...



https://web.archive.org/web/20171029205910/https://news.samsung.com/global/how-hdr10-creates-like-re... (this seems to have been taken down by Samsung, probably to cover their tracks in attempt to destroy evidence against them and for them to claim they did not promise HDR10+ support for 2016 TVs).



In both press releases it is clearly stated that “Later this year, Samsung’s 2016 UHD TVs will gain HDR10+ support as well through a firmware update”.



Please get back to me soon with solutions to how Samsung are going to make up for these broken promises that you just can’t look past or try to deny were ever made.



Best regards,

S****



------------------------



I think I have made my self very clear in this reply and hopefully they will give in.



I will keep you updated.
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paul1111 Hotshot
‎09-02-2018 04:56 PM

I think Curry's was referring to the clause,



*Subscription for Netflix and Amazon Instant Video required. Apps shown may not be available on all Samsung Smart TV products. The Samsung Smart TV platform is used by Content Providers to make apps available. Content Providers may remove apps from the Smart TV platform or stop supporting them at any time. When new Samsung Smart TV products are launched, there may be a delay before the apps shown become available on those products.



But the Smart Connect USB dongle is not an app so they can not use the above as a get out.
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Ronson808 Navigator
‎19-02-2018 11:48 PM

https://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-ue55ks9000-curved-suhd-premium-hdr-4k-ultra-hd-quantum-dot-smart-t...

**With free Samsung SmartThings Extend USB adapter available within 2016, additional purchase necessary to connect other appliances to the TV.
edit:and for proof its been there all along

https://web.archive.org/web/20160510093731/https://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-ue55ks9000-curved-suhd-...
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snosig Explorer
‎05-03-2018 05:04 PM

Hi



Here is a update on my case with Samsung.



After many emails with the regular support I gave up, as they were going nowhere. Then I decided to contact the CEO office of Samsung UK and described in details how Samsung had let me down.



Shortly after I got this reply.



--------------------

Good morning Mr S******, I am contacting in response to your contact with the CEO of Samsung UK, which has been provided to the CEO Escalations department for address.



I acknowledge that you have researched your concerns over the capabilities of your television, and this email is to advise that we are liaising with our AV specialists and department heads with regard to reaching a suitable resolution for each point mentioned.

At this time however I do not have any further updates, but hope that I can assure you that once these are received I will come back to you to discuss.



Thank you for taking the time to contact us, and I hope that in the meantime this will not detract from the use and enjoyment of your product.


Regards



Kirsty *****
Customer Services Executive | UK & Eire

--------------------





To which I replied:



--------------------

Hi Kirsty

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.

I am sad to hear that there are no updates on the repeatedly promised features that played a big role in my decision to purchase this TV.



Can you give me a simple yes or no answer to the question if Samsung does still plan on releasing the SmartThings Extend at any time in the future?



Best regards,

S*****

--------------------





Today I received this email:



--------------------

Good afternoon Mr S******, thank you for your patience while this matter has been discussed.



Our audio visual specialists have advised that unfortunately for technical reasons we were not able to release the SmartThings Extend in the UK. For customers seeking SmartThings connectivity, we are able to provide the functionality of Samsung SmartThings Hub with the confidence of consistent performance.



However, we must advise that SmartThings is only supported within Korea, the USA and the United Kingdom and will not operate in Iceland at this time.



With regard to HLG compatibility, there has been a mis-understanding/expectation within the Samsung Community that Samsung will provide HLG Support for BBC i-Player. We can state that this was never promised, Samsung advised that 2016 models would support HLG and did not specify HLG Support for BBC i-Player.



HDR 10+ support is presently under technical review, at this time we do not have any further information on the outcome but can provide this when available.



I hope this provides some clarification following review, and thank you for contacting Samsung.


Regards



Kirsty *****
Customer Services Executive | UK & Eire

--------------------



So here we got a second confirmation from the CEO office of Samsung UK that the SmartThings Extend will never be released.

To this email I replied:



--------------------

Hi Kirsty



So you are basically confirming that Samsung have miss-sold the entire KS 2016 Samsung TV series, as an advertised functionality will not be released. Thank you for that.



I am confident that the functionality the Samsung SmartThings Hub provides is not the same as the SmartThings Extend would, as I will not be able to control my SmartThings directly from my TV's UI, which was a big selling point for me when deciding on which TV to buy.



Regarding SmartThings only being officially supported within Korea, USA and UK, that may well be true. However I know for sure that SmartThings products can be used in other countries, and according to the SmartThings forum people are using it without any problems in countries such as Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Poland and many other countries (see discussion here: https://community.smartthings.com/t/smarthings-hub-in-eu-outside-uk/64133/14).



Not that this should have anything to say regarding my claim of miss-selling. I could for what it's worth be moving to UK tomorrow where my TV set would be just as miss-sold as it is today.



Regarding HLG, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there.



Moving on to the HDR10+, which was promised before the end of 2017, and now you tell me that at this time you do not have any further information on the outcome. This does not give me any confidence that this will be supported by the 2016 KS series at any time. I would actually be surprised if this happens at all.



So, this really does not provide any clarification in relation to my case, and I will still be holding up my claims of a replacement or a full refund, which I am entitled to according to the Oct 2015 European Consumer regs.



I look forward to hearing from you again.
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And this is the official statement from Samsung saying they will not release the Smart Things Dongle.
AntS Moderator Moderator
‎06-03-2018 11:39 AM

Hi all.



I can confirm that Snosig's report of the response he received about the SmartThings Extend (along with Kirsty's follow-up answer on it) accurately mirrors the official statement:



"Unfortunately, for technical reasons we were not able to release the SmartThings Extend in the UK. If you are seeking SmartThings connectivity, we are pleased to be able to provide the functionality of Samsung SmartThings Hub with the confidence of consistent performance.



SmartThings have confirmed for cases where customers had purchased selected 2016 TVs with the expected functionality of a SmartThings Hub, SmartThings will provide a hub free of charge.



Please contact SmartThings UK Support for further assistance. See support@smartthings.co.uk for further details."
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Sample letter
nintendofan Apprentice
5 hours ago

To anyone having issues with JL i have posted by below mails that got the ball rolling on my refund.



1st one



Hi



On xx xxx 20xx i purchased a new Samsung UExxKSxx00 under order xxxxxxxx after researching on the TV's available at the time and a long time Panasonic consumer, i decided to go for a the Samsung.



Of the 4K TV's that were around at the time, the specs were not vastly different, however what intrigued me about the Samsung was the built-in smart things ability to control smart devices around the home, without having to control them via another smart device like an amazon alexa. As other TV's at the time did not offer this ability, this is what influenced my decision to purchase this TV.



The page advertising the USB smart things dongle that would enable this feature was advertised on your site, however the link has subsequently and understandably for a 2016 TV been removed, however the page for the TV is still there and is below URL

Google your model along with keywords john lewis to find your page



Which states

Control Your Connected Home With SmartThings Extend
Developed alongside SmartThings, Samsung’s SUHD TV will have built-in software to let you do anything from switching on your lights to locking your doors**. It will connect to over 200 SmartThings compatible devices and put your home under complete wireless control – all from your TV. This way, you’ll be able to set the right scene in your living room without getting off the sofa. Please note that this feature is coming soon.



The delivery of the promised USB dongle (not an App) to enable this feature was then announced in early 2018 as no longer being delivered by Samsung, which goes back on an advertised feature of the TV, on which my purchased was based on, and is now a clear case of miss-selling.



As a further example of Samsung miss-selling this TV was brought up to the Retail ADR, in a case against Richer Sounds and it was found that Samsung was indeed in breech of the “Consumer Rights Act 2015”, of which a copy of the outcome can be found here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wchOMdwsbyzfMV4dbYBvh0wxDkkn9Z_z

"In conclusion Based on the evidence provided and after conducting our own online investigation, we agree that this is a clear case of misrepresentation."





Taking into account that the delivery of this feature is now never going to be reality, i feel that i have been misled into purchasing a TV that will never be able to do what was intended, and is in breech of miss-selling, as i would have probably been watching a Panasonic TV for the last year had it not been for being misguided by Samsung, however as the retailer, i am bound to take up my case with yourselves.



As a result of all the above, I would appreciate it if you can contact me on my phone, or mail me back by reply to this mail to discuss a refund or as a John Lewis fan, i am willing to discuss an exchange as i understand that this is not your fault, and that both John Lewis and myself have been misled by Samsung.



Thanks



2nd mail after inital reply about it being a "free promotional item" that i should contact samsung for.



Hi xxxx



Thanks for coming back to me so quickly. The issue here is that the missing feature was not a promotional item like a free DVD, but an advertised feature native of the product. It was announced to much fan fare that all 2016 KS range TV's would feature this, see below links and their press release announcement in RED

Samsung CEO himself announcing it on stage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkZw6NY3K8&feature=youtu.be&t=3m55s

https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/29/10682704/smartthings-hub-tvs-samsung-suhd

https://www.engadget.com/2015/12/29/samsung-smartthings-hub-smart-tvs-ces2016/?guccounter=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpRxjGeRsos

Among the 2016 Smart TVs, all Samsung’s 2016 SUHD TVs will apply IoT hub technology, allowing the TV itself to act as the controller for the entire smart home. Samsung developed its own IoT hub technology with SmartThings for 2016 SUHD TVs.

SUHD TVs can connect with and control Samsung devices and SmartThings sensors, as well as more than 200 other SmartThings compatible devices. These include everything from connected lights and locks to thermostats and cameras, from a wide range of high quality third party manufacturers. For the full support of connectivity with SmartThings compatible devices, SmartThings Extend USB adaptor is required.

At CES 2016, Samsung will showcase the future of TV and demonstrate how Samsung’s Smart TVs are at the center of the expanding IoT ecosystem.



As this feature was announced as a function native to the TV and then subsequently dropped after over 18 months, this is now something that the TV will never be able to achieve despite it being advertised as being able to do so. The consumer rights act 2015 protects against this under "As described"

As described The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.

As the TV no longer matches the advertised features, and still advertised on your website, this is in breech of this section of the sale of goods act, under the Consumer Rights Act

Looking at your own product description, thats still on the website, the feature is listed under the Product description, and not as a promotional add on product like a free DVD disk etc... had it been part of a "buy this TV and get a free DVD disk" type promotion, then id agree that id have to take this up with samsung, however as this was not a promotional product, but an advertised aspect of the TV, and as the seller my contract of sale is without yourselves and not samsung.

Thanks



Hope that might help some people...
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paul1277 Hotshot
‎05-06-2018 03:36 PM

Hi Paul, can you please explain what the problem is with scheduled recordings. I have a KS8000 so would I see the same problem? I may need this as ammo is JL don’t come up with an offer.



Thanks

Steve

I will do may best to try to condense the story but it did take over 8 months from start to finish. They will try all tricks to get out of it but as you have seen you have a case because Richer Sounds would not be giving refunds if there was none. I bet the other retailers hate RS. I post the details shortly.

Paul

This is quite a long post but this is Samsung admitting they have a problem with the sceduledrecording on all their 2016 2017 TV's.

It took only a few emails to the CEO to sort, here are the main one’s.

S e a n * * * * * *

Senior Customer Services Executive| UK & Eire

e: ********** moderators will not allow emails so change * to @

t: +44 (0) 330 726 7864

Before that online chats and telephone calls and never once did I get a call back even though they promised they would.

I bought a 65KS9500 from Amazon (first mistake because you loose your section 75 protect). After a couple of weeks it stopped doing scheduled recording. I contacted Samsung online and after 3 or separate chats they advised a full reset. That worked (but I lost all my settings), for a couple of weeks and stopped. Samsung customer service then had me taking photo’s of the TV changing USB drives and I was getting no where. They arranged for Martin Daws to inspect the TV and they changed the one connect, didi not work, then they came around again and changed the main PCB board. Wow it work, for 2 weeks and again stopped. That's when I contacted the CEO and this is the email,

“Yes, it's in respect to my TV not recording which has been ongoing since August without getting rectified. I had Martin Daws round twice to change the one connect and then the main PCB board. It worked for a week after the board was fitted. If I do a factory reset it works for a week then stops working. Martin Daws informed me that they had sent a request to you tech for advice last October and had heard nothing. When I contact your support all I get is to contact Martin Daws, and M Daws say they cannot do anything until they hear from you. I feel like the piggy in the middle. What with the HLG, HDR10+ and smart connect and a TV that will not do as advertised I am getting a little bit fed up.

Thanks

25 jan 2018”





This was there reply



“This issue of scheduled recording and some reports of challenges being experienced remains under review by our Product Support Team at Head Office.

As a result, in light of the number of challenges that you are facing with this television and pursuant to your specific situation if you could provide us with a copy of your purchase receipt we will be happy to consider your claims further.

Regards

Sean ******

Senior Customer Services Executive| UK & Eire

e: *******

t: +44 (0) 330 726 7864

26 jan 2018”

So I did and this came next which was a nice suprise

“Dear Mr L***

We would be happy to exchange for the QE65Q9FAMTXXU as a full and final resolution to this matter.

If this is agreeable I will proceed with arrangements.

Regards

Sean ******

Senior Customer Services Executive| UK & Eire

e: *******

t: +44 (0) 330 726 7864”

Which was agreeable to me and then I got this email,

“On 29 January 2018 at 16:44, UK President <*******> wrote:

Dear Mr L***

Thank you for sending a copy of your receipt as requested.

As previously mentioned in light of the various challenges that you are facing we would like to consider an exchange model for you, as advised this is pertinent to your specific situation.

However, prior to reviewing a suitable exchange we first do need to highlight that the scheduled recording issue is an on-going discussion with our Product Specialists in Head Office and HQ and thus any replacement may encounter similar issues. In addition the Smart Things Extend is not a feature that was released and thus will not be available on any replacement.

We wanted to provide transparency ahead of further discussions but if you did wish to consider the exchange we would be happy to review and discuss further.

Regards

Sean ******

Senior Customer Services Executive| UK & Eire

e: *******

t: +44 (0) 330 726 7864 “

It is in this email where they admit to an ongoing problem with scheduled recording which they had to cover them selves so that I would not send the new tv back with the same issues. I agreeded and they did replace the TV at no cost.

The TV did have the same recording issues as the KS, but worst the the HDR picture was auful and so dull. I put pictures of Star Trek on here and AV Forums to show how bad it was and a lot agreeded. I also sent same pictures to the CEO and he said they were within spec! I was about to hit cloud nine when I continued reading the email,



Paul



On 21 February 2018 at 15:50, UK President <*******> wrote:

Dear Mr L***

We are in receipt of the further photos however our Product Specialists position remains that the panel/TV is not faulty and is within specification.

I feel that we are therefore at an impasse as your request to exchange would not progress this matter to your satisfaction.

Therefore, if you could forward a copy of your purchase receipt for the original product (I cannot see that we have this on record) we will offer a refund payment in respect of this product following collection of the replacement.

Regards

Sean ******

Senior Customer Services Executive| UK & Eire

e: *******

t: +44 (0) 330 726 7864

Samsung Electronics UK
Samsung House
1000 Hillswood Drive
Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0PS”

As you can see they have offered a full refund which I got.

Hope helps

Paul

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