Re: [KS OWNERS ONLY] Sky to introduce HDR content on Sky Q from March - Page 4

daleski75 · ‎27-02-2018

Seen this article just now https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/02/sky-uk-unveils-next-wave-sky-q-tv-feature-upgrades.htm... and it will be very interesting to see if our televisions get HDR content through Sky Q.

Not seen anything yet about the format but assuming its HLG.

Will keep this thread as up to date as I can.

tarbat · ‎15-03-2018

@tarbatwrote:
The HLG image looked, as expected, oversaturated, since the source material's gamma range is not HLG.

I thought I should correct this assessment. After generating a corrected HDR infoframe, the only difference I see when switching the TV to HLG mode whilst inputing a normal SDR signal from Sky Q is an increase in brightness. This is what I originally expected, since all that HLG does is change the gamma curve at the upper end of the signal value.

87:01:1a:6d:03:00:3e:21:91:9b:aa:19:f7:08:43:8a:08:39:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:00:00:e8:03:e8:03

chopples123 · ‎15-03-2018

There may be a difference in saturation aswell mate. This will be down to Samsungs colour space settings, As it thinks it is receiving a HDR/WCG signal it will attempt to display the full range even though that is not what its actually receiving. Changing colourspace from auto to native whilst watching SDR content has a similiar effect. More info here if interested http://www.samsung.com/za/support/skp/faq/1071711

cheers

tarbat · ‎15-03-2018

I checked and it was using rec.709 colour space. I could force alternative colour space (rec.2020) using an AVI infoframe injection, or by changing the colour space settings on the TV. For this test, since the Sky Q box was sending SDR rec.709, it made sense to test HLG rec.709 as well.

chopples123 · ‎15-03-2018

Thanks for the reply mate. I will admit parts of this does confuse me. I thought if the Sammy was receiving a HLG signal it would assume its BT2100 and set colourspace accordingly. I didnt think it would be capable of going further and then being able to tell it wasnt BT2100 and switch to the correct space whilst still being in HLG mode, regardless of what additional data was injected. Learn something new everyday. The troubles with Android and colourswitching are well documented so i find that pretty impressive tbh.

Hopefully the UK wont be too far behind Italy with HDR, will be interesting to see your results once its live

cheers

UHDHDR · ‎15-03-2018

UHDHDR · ‎15-03-2018

@tarbatwrote:
I checked and it was using rec.709 colour space. I could force alternative colour space (rec.2020) using an AVI infoframe injection, or by changing the colour space settings on the TV. For this test, since the Sky Q box was sending SDR rec.709, it made sense to test HLG rec.709 as well.

So did injecting the corrected Infoframe that you posted earlier force BT2020?

Couldn't you also force BT2020 when selecting the EDID profile you want to use?

tarbat · ‎15-03-2018

q@
wrote:
So did injecting the corrected Infoframe that you posted earlier force BT2020?

Couldn't you also force BT2020 when selecting the EDID profile you want to use?

The HDR infoframe makes no difference to whether BT.709 or BT.2020 is used, that’s set by the actual AVI stream coming from the Sky Q Box, which is always BT.709, until Sky start broadcasting BT.2020. However one of the “advanced features” of the HDFury Integral also lets you modify the incoming AVI infoframes, and doing that did force the TV into BT.2020 mode, That obviously resulted in over-saturated colours. The downside of using this “advanced feature” is that it can only be cleared with a complete reset of the HDFury 😞

I think I’ve al least proven that KS TVs can handle HLG with either BT.709 or BT.2020 on HDMI.

Changing the EDID only tells the Sky Q box what formats the TV can accept, it can’t force the Sky Q box to actually output BT.2020.

Next weekend might be a useful test. Sky Italia claim to be broadcasting HLG on their 4K coverage of the F1 Australian GP. Presumably Sky UK will share the same feed, but may not flag it as HLG and rely on the fact that HLG will display okay in SDR.

chopples123 · ‎16-03-2018

@tarbatwrote:
Next weekend might be a useful test. Sky Italia claim to be broadcasting HLG on their 4K coverage of the F1 Australian GP. Presumably Sky UK will share the same feed, but may not flag it as HLG and rely on the fact that HLG will display okay in SDR.

I believe only the race is in HDR, but i dont think it will give us anymore info anyway, The testers have had access to various HLG broadcasts over the last few weeks, such as epl matches and europa league.

Its a pity noone in italy has a hdfury with skyQ and a KS set, likewise noone in the UK seems to have a KS,Fury and and something like a E2 receiver which can pass HLG (vu zero 4k etc...) with one of these receivers even if you dont have access to the TravelXP channel at 19.2e/13e or the test broadcasts you can still load a .ts from a recording (LG Jazz is a popular one) and play it through the receiver which then passes the HLG to the TV.

cheers

UHDHDR · ‎16-03-2018

@tarbatwrote:
q@
wrote:
So did injecting the corrected Infoframe that you posted earlier force BT2020?
Couldn't you also force BT2020 when selecting the EDID profile you want to use?
The HDR infoframe makes no difference to whether BT.709 or BT.2020 is used, that’s set by the actual AVI stream coming from the Sky Q Box, which is always BT.709, until Sky start broadcasting BT.2020. However one of the “advanced features” of the HDFury Integral also lets you modify the incoming AVI infoframes, and doing that did force the TV into BT.2020 mode, That obviously resulted in over-saturated colours. The downside of using this “advanced feature” is that it can only be cleared with a complete reset of the HDFury 😞

I think I’ve al least proven that KS TVs can handle HLG with either BT.709 or BT.2020 on HDMI.

Changing the EDID only tells the Sky Q box what formats the TV can accept, it can’t force the Sky Q box to actually output BT.2020.

Next weekend might be a useful test. Sky Italia claim to be broadcasting HLG on their 4K coverage of the F1 Australian GP. Presumably Sky UK will share the same feed, but may not flag it as HLG and rely on the fact that HLG will display okay in SDR.

Got it.

By the way, why did you need a corrected HDR Infoframe? What was wrong with the first one you used?

tarbat · ‎18-03-2018

@UHDHDRwrote:
By the way, why did you need a corrected HDR Infoframe? What was wrong with the first one you used?

Because I had more control over the HDR infoframe content using the AVTopController software, but more importantly I also discovered what appears to be a bug in the HDFury GUI where it always sends PQ rather than HLG when I ticked the "HDR Always Active" box, despite my Infoframe specifying HLG. I proved this on my 2017 Samsung which helpfully displays whether it's receiving BT.1886 (SDR), ST.2084 (PQ) or HLG, and ticking the "HDR Always Active" box immediately switched the TV from HLG to ST.2084 (PQ).

Anyway, I'm finding that using HLG on an HDMI input is now easy on my 2016 KS8000 TV. Just got to wait for Sky to actually broadcast in HLG. Although SDR broadcasts look pretty good, which is to be expected given the similarities between an SDR gamma curve and the HLG gamma curve up to about 70%. Bright faces can look very odd with a shiny reflective look, but I can now easily turn HLG mode on and off with the HDFury iOS app.