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HW-K650 and Two R1 Wirelss Speakers in 5.1 With KS7000 TV

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Apprentice

I've done quite a bit of testing and have found to get the very best sound quality out of hw-k650 and 2x radiant 360's is to take the tv out of the equation.

 

I just don't think my Samsung tv is capable of processing multi channel audio very well.

 

 I am now running an optical cable straight from cable box to soundbar for cable subscription content. I select d.in on soundbar and create surround setup with multiroom app. My cable box outputs DD 5.1 surround sound from optical.

 

The sound is very good straight from cable box. When tv is involved and select bitstream DD the sound is muffled like it is being reprocessed. If I select bitstream PCM the sound is good but there is bleeding from from front channels to surrounds.

 

 For all other content such as blurays and streaming apps I make the surround setup with my Samsung UHD bluray players multiroom link settings app. The sound from the hw-k650 and 2 x radiant 360's is very good when bluray player makes surround setup. 

 

 I know it is a hassle to have to use multiple remotes but I think it is worth it to get the very best sound quality. Everyone that has heard my audio setup has been impressed with the sound quality. Including a friend who has the latest and greatest Denon DTS X, DOLBY ATMOS receiver and speakers. I am very happy with my hw-k650 and radiant 360 speakers.

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First Poster
Maybe someone can help me.

My set-up:
TV: Samsung SEK-3500U (similar to KS9000); Firmware 1900
Soundbar: HW-K650; Firmware 3113.5
Back Surrounds: 2 x WAM350 (M3's): Firmware 3110.5

TEST 1:
On the TV I set:
HDMI Audio Format (Input) = Bitstream
Audio Format (Output) = PCM
Soundbar and the M3's are connected via Wifi and it shows 5.1
I then play a Netflix Movie (from internal TV source) that has Dolby Digital 5.1.

Result:
The sound is great. But I'm not convinced that it is 5.1. I suspect it is pseudo 5.1

Question:
Am I getting true 5.1? Does PCM output multi-channel 5.1 or only stereo (and hence the soundbar do a pseudo 5.1)?


TEST 2:
On the TV I set:
HDMI Audio Format (Input) = Bitstream
Soundbar and the M3's are connected via Wifi and it shows 5.1
I then play a Netflix Movie (from internal TV source) that has Dolby Digital 5.1.
Change Audio Format (Output) from PCM to Dolby Digital.

Result:
The sound volume is much lower than when it was on PCM, the M3's is hardly in use (very low volume). It does not sound good at all.

Question:
What is the issue here? is this the same issue as all you had with the R1's?


This is absurd, why can't I get 5.1?
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Navigator

Hi

 

Set hdmi to bitstream and audio to Dolby. The TV wont pass 5.1 via PCM. It will only be stereo. I get true 5.1. I have tested using various test files.  

 

Lee 

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First Poster

@leelazer wrote:

Hi

 

Set hdmi to bitstream and audio to Dolby. The TV wont pass 5.1 via PCM. It will only be stereo. I get true 5.1. I have tested using various test files.  

 

Lee 


Hi Lee,

 

Does it not also depend somewhat on the source of the audio track?

 

I have an Apple TV 4. Looking at the Apple TV specs,  it's says that you should make a direct connection to a receiver that supports LPCM. (There is no mention of Bitsteam).

 

i have the Samsung KS8000 TV. I am not sure if it supports LPCM, if you select PCM?

 

There are 3 settings for sound from the Apple TV.

 

1) Best Quality available. 

"Over HDMI, the best quality available setting outputs Dolby Digital 7.1 or 5.1 as uncompressed LPCM".

 

2) Dolby Digital 5.1

"This setting re-encodes surround sound to Dolby Digital 5.1, which might help if your TV receiver has compatibility issues with multichannel LPCM audio".

 

3) Stereo

"This setting plays only stereo audio".

 

I have tried different settings, but seem to get a good result from setting the Apple TV to Dolby Digital and the KS8000 to PCM & Dolby Digital.

 

i've played some of the Dolby test files and definitely get surround sound.  (If not true surround sound, it's fooling me. It certainly sounds as if sounds are moving behind you).

 

Are you saying that the PCM setting on the TV isn't compatible with a LPCM output from the Apple TV?

 

i have tried to find out if the KS8000 is capable of handling a LPCM input, but haven't been able to find anything out, one way or another. Can anyone else confirm this - either yes or no?

 

i wish it wasn't so complicated :-/

 

David

 

 

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Navigator

Hi

 

LPCM and PCM are the same thing really. Unfortunately no TV that I know of supports multi channel PCM. only stereo. To get 5.1 from your Apple TV it would need to have a bitstream over hdmi option. The closest option I can see to that is the Dolby digital 5.1 option so give that a try. Ideally you need a 5.1 test file that you can play through the apple TV to test it out 

 

Lee

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Apprentice

From what I understand LPCM is multichannel PCM. All audio regardless of format ends up PCM one way or another once it is decoded.

 

 Maybe you could test by plugging your Apple tv directly into soundbar. Too bad your apple tv doesnt have an optical or hdmi audio out. I realize you wont get any video but maybe you could test the different audio settings with the tv out of the equation.

 

 According to Samsungs HW-K650 specs the soundbar supports video passthrough. I know it doesnt support 4k video passthrough and I havent tried any other sources like my 1080p cable box hdmi to soundbar then hdmi to tv. 

 

 Maybe you could try connecting your apple tv to soundbar then soundbar to tv.

[Edit] nevermind, you cant afaik make a surround setup with hdmi--you need d.in with an optical cable and your apple tv has no optical port.

Highlighted
First Poster

@leelazer wrote:

Hi

 

Set hdmi to bitstream and audio to Dolby. The TV wont pass 5.1 via PCM. It will only be stereo. I get true 5.1. I have tested using various test files.  

 

Lee 


How do you know my TV will not pass 5.1via PCM?

 

As mentioned before,  my test 2 is set hdmi to bitstream and audio to Dolby.  The sound is muffled,  low volume,  and my M3 rears hardly makes a sound.  Is this normal?   

 

 

Highlighted
First Poster

@leelazer wrote:

Hi

 

Set hdmi to bitstream and audio to Dolby. The TV wont pass 5.1 via PCM. It will only be stereo. I get true 5.1. I have tested using various test files.  

 

Lee 



TEST 2:
On the TV I set:
HDMI Audio Format (Input) = Bitstream
Soundbar and the M3's are connected via Wifi and it shows 5.1
I then play a Netflix Movie (from internal TV source) that has Dolby Digital 5.1.
Change Audio Format (Output) from PCM to Dolby Digital.

Result:
The sound volume is much lower than when it was on PCM, the M3's is hardly in use (very low volume). It does not sound good at all.

Question:
What is the issue here? is this the same issue as all you had with the R1's?


This is absurd, why can't I get 5.1?

Highlighted
Navigator

Hi.

 

It can be very hard to tell if you are getting 5.1 watching a movie unless you have heard it many times before and know what sounds should be coming from where. If I'm.testing with a movie I use the intro from transformers dark side of the moon as it makes really good use of the surround channels. I would suggest putting a test file on a memory stick and playing that from the TV USB. If you are getting 5.1 from that then there is no reason you shouldn't get 5.1 from Netflix. As a side note I have always found that 5.1 tracks need more volume than a stereo movie track.  

 

Lee

Apprentice

TEST 2:
On the TV I set:
HDMI Audio Format (Input) = Bitstream
Soundbar and the M3's are connected via Wifi and it shows 5.1
I then play a Netflix Movie (from internal TV source) that has Dolby Digital 5.1.
Change Audio Format (Output) from PCM to Dolby Digital

 

 The HDMI audio selection is only relevant from a source that is input via HDMI. 

My tv and surround setup performs similarly to yours with tvs netflix app. 

 Sound quality is much better when the tv is completey out of the equation when it comes to audio. 

 When I watch Netflix or Amazon, VUDU, etc. I use my Samsung UHD bluray player. It has the same built in apps as my Samsung tv and also has multiroom link settings in audio settings just like my tv. The bluray player connects to soundbar and 2 x r1's wirelessly and creates surround setup just like tv except the sound is clearly and unmistakably better.  You don't have to wonder if you are getting 5.1 surround sound when bluray player creates the surround setup. 

 

 When my Samsung tv creates the wireless surround setup, DTS HD MA 5.1 speaker assignment sound check will not play correctly from a USB stick plugged into tv. When my bluray player creates the wireless surround setup the DTS HD MA 5.1 speaker assignment sound check works correctly.  I can get Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 speaker assignment sound checks to work either way but some Dolby Digital 5.1 sources are clearly not being decoded correctly when the tv is involved. 

 

 

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